OT - SU-30MKI Top Knotch Performance Video

[Pilotasso]

Don't let national pride cloud your judgement. My country is also using the Eurofighter. My nations skies are defended by this fine craft. But if you want to class by "generation" then they are the same. The origins of the Eurofighter can be traced back to 1972 and came from AST-396 (Air Staff Target 396) issued by the RAF.

 

News flash for you, my country has none, and will never have any eurofighters in its inventory, so its not a biased vision I have. The eurofighter may have been though up in the 70's but its actual conception took place in the 90's.

 

 

 

You are correct here. The Sukhoi has a cannon. :p

 

LOL the britsh actualy will have one but wont be fired in exercises, all others will. And the flanker has how many rounds? 100?:p

[23rd_Drago]

And the flanker has how many rounds? 100?:p

 

150 round of 30mm on Flanker are equivalent to Eagle’s 940 rounds of 20mm. Don’t ask me how they came up with that conclusion.

[GGTharos]

The ability to do damage, basically, assuming same range and same shooting accuracy (I think)

 

The F-15's 20mm will do damage but you need more of them to do the equivalent of the 30mm. Obviously there are some flaws with the equivalnce - the 20mm's travel in a much denser cloud and enemy aircraft are far less to evade by simply not being where the rounds are in the 'stream' so to speak, under certain shooting angles. So it's kinda sorta subjective :P Obviously it's a capable and adequate weapon on both sides.

[Pilotasso]

150 round of 30mm on Flanker are equivalent to Eagle’s 940 rounds of 20mm. Don’t ask me how they came up with that conclusion.

 

Must have been like this: K=1/2m*v^2

 

Then I would cArry an anvil on my cocpit back seat in the hopes of sending it through an F-15's pilots cranium and returm home with the satisfaction that:"well that was worth 900 rouds of eagles amunition!"

 

The point is that we cant hope to get fewer and heavier rounds to a target as easely as a cloud of smaller amunition, the later is much easier on the pilot.

[GGTharos]

Not just kinetic (the 20mm can technically make up with speed in the short range, or be equivalent, but they slow down faster) but also with some extra range and the fact that you can cram more explosives into a larger projectile ;)

 

It's also potentially more accurate ballistically, but that's probably not a huge factor at guns ranges (so you score a hit within 2' instead of 6' at half a mile, big deal. Both are still on the aicraft)

[BIOLOG]

Given your nationality, I guess there’s no point in continuing this argument… does it?

Cheers ;)

 

 

This is erupting into another pathetic "my daddy is better then yours!" threads. Watch it, or I will have to ax the thread.

 

As for you, Drago, if you EVER post something like that again, I promise you a week's vacation at the very least. This is multinational board and nationalism will not be tolerated. Do I make myself clear?

[Kula66]

Just watched the vids ... I love the way Russian display pilots fly ... absolutely to the edge. I've seen F-15/16s fly a few times at displays ... very boring, round in circles, a few roles a high-speed pass and its over ... hats off to the Ruskie pilots, GREAT flying, GREAT entertainment! James

[Kula66]

Don't let national pride cloud your judgement. My country is also using the Eurofighter. My nations skies are defended by this fine craft.

When did Ireland sign up for the Eurofighter?

[Skywall23]

When did Ireland sign up for the Eurofighter?

Ever heared of Northen Ireland?

[Kula66]

Ever heared of Northen Ireland?

The Location tag says Eire ... thats Southern Ireland ...

[bSr.LCsta]

does anyone know how the TV nozzles are controled? ie Hat switch, lever?

[BIOLOG]

Just a simple button on pilot's stick. After that computer does all the work. It automatically controls the nizzle deflection, reducing load on the pilot.

[bSr.LCsta]

Just a simple button on pilot's stick. After that computer does all the work. It automatically controls the nizzle deflection, reducing load on the pilot.

 

Not sure I understand correctly.....

 

Do they operate independently (able to be moved by themselves) of the stick or in unison with the stick's movement?

 

Also, maybe you could explain the senerio that would produce where you would have the Nozzles going in opposing directions??

 

Thanks.

 

p.s. This is interesting, who knows if its true.

http://www.flymig.com/forum/posts/1086197524.htm

[Pilotasso]

As far as I can tell TVC has been eliminated from russian versions. It is reprted that good FBW alone allows almost as good control as TVC. This came after the famous SU-35 crash.

 

The indians were having problems with engine durability in their TVC Su-30MKI's, probably why the russians dont have these in their combat wings.

 

Manueverable aircraft and fancy aerobatic displays are all very nice and pretty but what matters is onboard eqipment and situational awareness, and reliability of its sensory array. We dont get to have these kind of demostrations on airshows and we dont know how "spetacular" they are.

 

Any real pilot wont dare to slow down to perform cobras in the middle of an engagement unless hes on defensive.

 

As for that F-15E VS Su-30 exercise...american pilots on Su-30's?!

9VS1 kill ratio? must have been in close combat. the F-15E is a lot heavier than the air superiority variant, we're talking about a fighter bomber here!

Not that it doesnt posess a strong BVR punch, wich I doubt it was properly done in a simulated way.

[D-Scythe]

This thread is so full of misinformation and highly biased opinions (disguised as facts) that it's almost funny. All I can say, to both the "West" pilots and the "East" pilots, is that your respective countries had their best people come up with the best machines possible, so when you guys say, "The Flanker pwns" or something irrational like that, it is absolutely your *opinion*, nothing else. As the public (i.e. CIVILIANS), we know NOTHING, unless, god forbid, both sides go to war.

 

For example, the Indian-U.S. exercise? Just an *exercise*. Means nothing because the F-15Cs were simulating Pakistani F-7s and F-16As - fighters with crappy radar and no real BVR capabilities whatsover. Outnumbered, no AWACs, no long-range radar and no AMRAAM...Gee, I wonder who will win.

 

Saying one's "favorite" plane is better than the other (e.g. Su-35 pwns F-22) is, IMO, a huge indication of how biased and clueless you are. For some of you, keep it up.

[KuostA]

Not sure if this is what anyone's getting at, But Initially, I never intended to say flat out, the "Flanker pwns all."

 

Just thought you guys had to see something more than beautiful and amazing.

 

Andrew caught on pretty well.

[Skywall23]

This thread is so full of misinformation and highly biased opinions (disguised as facts) that it's almost funny. All I can say, to both the "West" pilots and the "East" pilots, is that your respective countries had their best people come up with the best machines possible, so when you guys say, "The Flanker pwns" or something irrational like that, it is absolutely your *opinion*, nothing else. As the public (i.e. CIVILIANS), we know NOTHING, unless, god forbid, both sides go to war.

 

For example, the Indian-U.S. exercise? Just an *exercise*. Means nothing because the F-15Cs were simulating Pakistani F-7s and F-16As - fighters with crappy radar and no real BVR capabilities whatsover. Outnumbered, no AWACs, no long-range radar and no AMRAAM...Gee, I wonder who will win.

 

Saying one's "favorite" plane is better than the other (e.g. Su-35 pwns F-22) is, IMO, a huge indication of how biased and clueless you are. For some of you, keep it up.

 

Who said so? And why dont you look at your side? There are plenty of F-15 pilots that say the Eagle pwns. Does that mean is just their opinion? Remember when you told that the aircraft technology didnt really matter during air combat and it was the pilot skill instead? Well if an Eagle pilot says that his aircraft pwns, obviously he identifies himself with that aircraft. It may because it has ARH, it may because of the top speed and accelaration or may its agility? Obviously an Eagle pilot is more effective with an F-15 than with an F-14. Thatswhy he says that his aircraft is the best, because he manages more effective flights than with other aircraft and prefers its strong points.

 

Thatswhy there are people that prefer different aircraft. I myself identify better with the Flanker series. I like its strong points, like more weapon payload and some of its avionics, because I believe I get a better flight. And I always said that the Flankers were the best, at least for me. If I had to select an aircraft to pilot i would choose a Flanker. Does that mean its the best aircraft in the world? No, but perhaps I would get more air kills with it. So if I managed to shot down many aircraft with it w/o been hit, my aircraft was obviously the best. At least according to the Eagle 100:0 ratio kill theory...

 

Anyway, I dont know if you were referring to me. But giving our "friendship" I had to answer your post. Also, KoustA intention was never to make this an "aircraft vs aircraft" debate. But some people cant contend themselves and come here and say the Flanker rules or the Raptor is the best, etc. However there are people that dont share this opinion and the battle starts. Other though, just want to learn something. You should do that instead of coming here to make such a useless post.

 

Sorry for being harsh, but i just couldnt take it.

[GGTharos]

Not sure I understand correctly.....

 

Do they operate independently (able to be moved by themselves) of the stick or in unison with the stick's movement?

 

Also, maybe you could explain the senerio that would produce where you would have the Nozzles going in opposing directions??

 

Thanks.

 

p.s. This is interesting, who knows if its true.

http://www.flymig.com/forum/posts/1086197524.htm

 

 

Hey L()Csta,

 

TVC is pretyt much always controlled by fly-by-wire. Ie. the pilot has no direct input in nozzle positioning - you just put in stick and rudder and the computer figures out where the nozzles should be pointing. I'm not sure what you mean by 'opposite directions' since with 2D nozzles it could mean a couple things (horizontal vs. vertical). For vertical, it would enhance roll - horizontal might stabiliize you but you could also have 'prohibited' modes where the nozzles cannot point at each other (just an example, I don't know if or why).

 

You can also use the TVC to point the nose around while your wings are stalled and in general assist in stall recovery as well (That would basically be controlling the aircraft in an out-of-control mode, I guess?)

 

I don't know if I answered you question well ... but basically they can move indepentantly of the stick (unlikely IMHO, read on) in cases where they are needed to stabilize against turbulence and so on. In pretty much most cases your control input will determing if the TVC will move and how it will move though.

 

 

As for the F-15E v Su-30MKI thing, this seems to be dated well before I found info on the subject whihch pretty much flat out stated that there were no Su-30MKI's or F-15E's used in exercises ... just Su-30(Maybe MK's) and F-15Cs. It's an old subject, it's been beaten around quite a bit, and the only conlusion has been that its inconclusive due to the USAF turning off a whole bunch of systems for DACT, potentially unrealistic missile simulation and ROE that always favors the home team.

[Kula66]

TVC is pretyt much always controlled by fly-by-wire. Ie. the pilot has no direct input in nozzle positioning -

Not on the Harrier ... pilot has fully manual control ...

[GGTharos]

Not on the Harrier ... pilot has fully manual control ...

 

 

The harrier is an entirely different thing ... let's not mix up terminologies, eh? We all know what I was talking about :P

[D-Scythe]

Who said so? And why dont you look at your side? There are plenty of F-15 pilots that say the Eagle pwns. Does that mean is just their opinion? Remember when you told that the aircraft technology didnt really matter during air combat and it was the pilot skill instead? Well if an Eagle pilot says that his aircraft pwns, obviously he identifies himself with that aircraft. It may because it has ARH, it may because of the top speed and accelaration or may its agility? Obviously an Eagle pilot is more effective with an F-15 than with an F-14. Thatswhy he says that his aircraft is the best, because he manages more effective flights than with other aircraft and prefers its strong points.

 

Thatswhy there are people that prefer different aircraft. I myself identify better with the Flanker series. I like its strong points, like more weapon payload and some of its avionics, because I believe I get a better flight. And I always said that the Flankers were the best, at least for me. If I had to select an aircraft to pilot i would choose a Flanker. Does that mean its the best aircraft in the world? No, but perhaps I would get more air kills with it.

 

Hmm, while it may be true I prefer the F-15 over the Su-27, did I *EVER* come out and explicitly state that the F-15 "pwns"? No, I haven't, and I never will. So I don't see what the problem is - I'm not saying that people shouldn't have favorites, just that their favorites may not always be the best, and if they are, there is no way they can know.

 

"All I know is how little I know..."

 

So if I managed to shot down many aircraft with it w/o been hit, my aircraft was obviously the best. At least according to the Eagle 100:0 ratio kill theory...

 

Wow, still ripping on the F-15's combat record huh? See, if I was a hard-core, biased F-15 guy that thought the Eagle "pwns", I might be offended and start making fun of the Flanker's combat record. But that would be hard because its record basically amounts to doing circles with MiG-29s until they ran out of fuel so they could shoot them down - in a completely benign environment, I might add (i.e. no SAMs, etc).

 

Anyway, I dont know if you were referring to me.

 

I don't seem to understand. I was clearly referring to people who came out and stated that their favorites are the best. If you are not one of them, you have nothing to worry about.

 

But giving our "friendship" I had to answer your post. Also, KoustA intention was never to make this an "aircraft vs aircraft" debate. But some people cant contend themselves and come here and say the Flanker rules or the Raptor is the best, etc. However there are people that dont share this opinion and the battle starts.

 

Sorry for being harsh, but i just couldnt take it.

 

Useless post? Scroll back a few pages and tell me how many times you've read "Flanker pwns" or "Su-35 beats F-22." My post was *clearly* directed at those people who jacked this thread and turned it into another pissing contest.

 

Other though, just want to learn something. You should do that instead of coming here to make such a useless post.

 

Learn what? This thread started out with good intentions (and I sympathise with KoustA) but it quickly went downhill. I mean, come on, F-15Es in the USAF/Indian exercise? It's funny how clueless most people are. I wouldn't be surprised if the next bit of "info" to pop up is an alleged U.S./Russan exercise between F-15Cs and Su-27SMs where the Eagle (or Flanker) gets smacked.

[bSr.LCsta]

I wouldn't be surprised if the next bit of "info" to pop up is an alleged U.S./Russan exercise between F-15Cs and Su-27SMs where the Eagle (or Flanker) gets smacked.

 

I was there and it was a close battle, until a Cesna with mounted stinger missiles on the wings pwned them both. :)

 

p.s. Thanks for the info GG, I think I understand. I will try and confirm/Learn more about some of this stuff when I go to MAKS.