Killed by Building

[ericinexile]

I've been a bit bored with Black Shark recently. Still, about once a week I'll go on the 104th server to get my fix. That fix almost always results in being killed by "buildings". The "buildings" thing will get fixed soon enough, I'm sure, but what really needs to happen is for mission designers to provide some AI cover over the target area. Since the Ka50 has no way of knowing what's in the area, just seeing the action will queue the pilot that he's in danger and he can go hide in town.

 

I like the FC/BS merge. But I've just found that I've enjoyed BS much less since. Yes, there is the ability to coordinate with CAP on comms but precious few fighter types are interested in loitering over target area. At least AI gives the helo a bit of SA until Kamov learn that a TWS might be worth having.

[andysim]

I too miss the BS only days before the merge. Now I dont fly the BS online but I do fly FC2 online sometimes. Theres very little chance of me even making it to the target area in the Ka50 without getting owned by other players. Coop would not be so bad but it seems most of the servers are red v blue.

 

I would set up my own coop servers but not really sure how to configure my PC for that.

[Speed]

Not to mention they will reset the server if they get bored with having to fly longer to get to target areas or not having Maykop to take off of and own Ka-50s trying to kill the defenses around it, wiping out all the progress you made on the ground. And if their server reset vote fails, they will just do it over and over and over and over... that's the real reason I quit flying on the 104th server. The people don't give a damn about winning the missions, the fighters pilots don't understand what CAP is, and they just want to play air quake over and over again.

 

One can survive for quite long periods against fighters, you just have to fly low and less than 140kmh. STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM OTHER KA-50 PILOTS. You make far easier targets all grouped up.

 

There are lots of co-op missions coming out that allow you to team up with fast movers, and that is what I would recommend for you eric. STP usually flies them, and I also host them on the 16th server.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Speed

[ericinexile]

Of course you are right and I should try other servers. I choose the 104th for the very reason I die so often--there lots of players. A better idea than AI is just to have zones over target areas and messeging every time an enemy plane enters or leaves a zone. If planes stick to their assigned patrol area they don't need to worry about their positions being given away. If they do choose to pick off defenseless helicopters then let them at least know that their positions will be posted for all to know.

[ObvilionLost]

That's strange, I flew few times on 104th server in Ka-50 and only got shot down once, and the player had to work hard to get me.:joystick: You just have to fly low and slow. Jsut fly as low as you can without causing dust from your rotor wash or enemy will easily see you.

Edited August 1, 2010 by ObvilionLost

[3Sqn_TomAce]

We just need to encourage more cooperation on each team, 3Sqn will support our sides 50's and other strike types just ask if you need CAP and we'll provide, I'm sure the other established squads/pilots will do the same.

 

More in game team chat or team coms and see if we can work together better.

[JasonJ]

Sometimes you get some good air support, sometimes not. You have to fly BS smart and patiently. It sucks sometimes, but then sometimes you get a win and it is VERY rewarding for the effort you must put in.

 

Very sweaty having fighters buzzing around you and you're managing to avoid them. Pretty crazy when you're cruising at low speeds and an enemy fighter shoots past and he didn't see you.

 

I don't know if missions were designed before the BS/FC merge, but target area ingress points really need some ground scenery/cover.

Edited August 1, 2010 by JasonJ

[104th_Crunch]

You can change the mission, but teamwork is created by players regardless of missions. Hard to do get a bunch of strangers to want to do this. Many MP games try, but... It's how you play the mission ® :D

 

Best thing I can ever suggest is one of the many great FC2/DCS squads. You can fly any mission, make goals, escort Ka-50s etc. The sky is the limit as they say.

[Grimes]

The game doesnt do a very good job of sharing mission info in game. All we get to know is who is flying what and if the mission has it, a small text box in the top right corner during triggered events that displays a message. Outside of that players must rely on text and voice comms to send/receive critical game information. Sadly text generally sucks for communicating in a flight sim as its difficult to send a message when in a combat situation and even during safe flying it can be annoying to take a hand of the stick to send info. Furthermore not all players feel comfortable getting on voice comms, and thats ok and completely understandable. As a result something needs to be added to make teamwork accessible to players not in squadrons or on voice comms.

 

I can think of several ideas to improve things off the top of my head. It is an interesting design dilemma for multiplayer flight sims however. Adding an accessible map in flight (think ARMA map) would be helpful, mark threats, plan attacks... it could really be an improvement. Yet many would argue its not realistic, and if it had live radar contacts on there it could be exploited.

 

Ideally speaking if I could tell the programmers what to make, I'd offer the idea of a AI command and control system. Players check in with it during their start up preps, based on radar and battlefield information the system tasks players with a mission. So if it picked up an unknown radar contact away from the front lines, it tasks a player to go check it out. If someone is threatend.... like a F-15 is dangerously close to a Ka-50 it informs the Ka-50 of the threat and orders a fighter to the location. If two groups of AI ground vehicles are in combat they radio for CAS.

 

Heck, it could be a player accessible slot that is an RTS view of the battlefield in DEFCON style.

 

The point is, DCS or Lockon really really needs something like this. Sure aspects of it make it more of a "game" than "simulation" but its a compromise that adds accessible playability for a large number of players. Anything that moves away from the pure Deathmatch UI we have now will be a step forward, its up to Eagle to decide how long their legs are.

[Bearitall]

The game doesnt do a very good job of sharing mission info in game. All we get to know is who is flying what and if the mission has it, a small text box in the top right corner during triggered events that displays a message. Outside of that players must rely on text and voice comms to send/receive critical game information. Sadly text generally sucks for communicating in a flight sim as its difficult to send a message when in a combat situation and even during safe flying it can be annoying to take a hand of the stick to send info. Furthermore not all players feel comfortable getting on voice comms, and thats ok and completely understandable. As a result something needs to be added to make teamwork accessible to players not in squadrons or on voice comms.

 

I can think of several ideas to improve things off the top of my head. It is an interesting design dilemma for multiplayer flight sims however. Adding an accessible map in flight (think ARMA map) would be helpful, mark threats, plan attacks... it could really be an improvement. Yet many would argue its not realistic, and if it had live radar contacts on there it could be exploited.

 

Ideally speaking if I could tell the programmers what to make, I'd offer the idea of a AI command and control system. Players check in with it during their start up preps, based on radar and battlefield information the system tasks players with a mission. So if it picked up an unknown radar contact away from the front lines, it tasks a player to go check it out. If someone is threatend.... like a F-15 is dangerously close to a Ka-50 it informs the Ka-50 of the threat and orders a fighter to the location. If two groups of AI ground vehicles are in combat they radio for CAS.

 

Heck, it could be a player accessible slot that is an RTS view of the battlefield in DEFCON style.

 

The point is, DCS or Lockon really really needs something like this. Sure aspects of it make it more of a "game" than "simulation" but its a compromise that adds accessible playability for a large number of players. Anything that moves away from the pure Deathmatch UI we have now will be a step forward, its up to Eagle to decide how long their legs are.

 

Hey Grimes;

 

That is an interesting concept, I think that it would add to the simulation even more..where you were given instructions from " Command " of possible threats and CAS it will add interesting test of a pilots skills in what knowing how to use cockpit instruments..cause info was given in like " Unknown, heading 240, angels 5" ..nice idea man:thumbup:

[Boberro]

Nice concept Grimes, i feel also that LO needs something more which let play closer together.

 

I see lacks team work of Ka-50 and Su-25T... They don't have data-links modelled to send each other targets, no Pastel display for 25T. Generally common shared map with detected targets, threats plan attacks would help keep people closer.

[Griffin]

I've been shot down by a fighter only once. It was a friendly F-15 who's AMRAAM went maddog. Twice I've been hunted by fighters but hiding in a town has saved me by making the fools with a bad aim crash into buildings. We even shot an F-15 down in a group of Ka-50's. Credit goes to MoGas but we all had a part in it.

 

Good idea Grimes. While the only way to get realistic is to fly in a group, it would sure help to add some nice features into the sim.

Also as much as I love helicopters, I hope ED won't make another helo module before there is a proper terrain engine.

[ericinexile]

I guess it's a question of GAME versus SIMULATOR.

 

Just having ground pounders over the target area without cover makes it a game. There's an obvious reason why the Ka50 has only a laser warning reciever on board: It was design to fly in areas with little or know fighter threat and areas where Russia has complete air superiority.

 

I don't want to fly 30 km at 140 kph only to hide in Krasnodar for 20 minutes watching other helos get pasted. At the very least, a form of Command and Control warning, simulated through the use of Trigger Zones and text messeges will at least let us know when to stop and take cover.

 

For now, it's just slaughter. Only an idiot would take satisfaction in downing a helicopter.

Edited August 1, 2010 by ericinexile

[ericinexile]

I've spent the last few days on the 104th and discovered that the autopilot is my friend. I'll peg the speed at 135, put the AP on, check the ABRIS time-to-waypoint, and go fold laundry. When I get back the Shark is still alive and ready to go. Haven't been shot down yet in 4 missions. So thanks for the advice and here's hoping Eagle doesn't fix this unrealistic anomaly with the radar. (Also hoping they do fix the "building" thing).

[SkidMark]

The game doesnt do a very good job of sharing mission info in game. All we get to know is who is flying what and if the mission has it, a small text box in the top right corner during triggered events that displays a message. Outside of that players must rely on text and voice comms to send/receive critical game information. Sadly text generally sucks for communicating in a flight sim as its difficult to send a message when in a combat situation and even during safe flying it can be annoying to take a hand of the stick to send info. Furthermore not all players feel comfortable getting on voice comms, and thats ok and completely understandable. As a result something needs to be added to make teamwork accessible to players not in squadrons or on voice comms.

 

I can think of several ideas to improve things off the top of my head. It is an interesting design dilemma for multiplayer flight sims however. Adding an accessible map in flight (think ARMA map) would be helpful, mark threats, plan attacks... it could really be an improvement. Yet many would argue its not realistic, and if it had live radar contacts on there it could be exploited.

 

Ideally speaking if I could tell the programmers what to make, I'd offer the idea of a AI command and control system. Players check in with it during their start up preps, based on radar and battlefield information the system tasks players with a mission. So if it picked up an unknown radar contact away from the front lines, it tasks a player to go check it out. If someone is threatend.... like a F-15 is dangerously close to a Ka-50 it informs the Ka-50 of the threat and orders a fighter to the location. If two groups of AI ground vehicles are in combat they radio for CAS.

 

Heck, it could be a player accessible slot that is an RTS view of the battlefield in DEFCON style.

 

The point is, DCS or Lockon really really needs something like this. Sure aspects of it make it more of a "game" than "simulation" but its a compromise that adds accessible playability for a large number of players. Anything that moves away from the pure Deathmatch UI we have now will be a step forward, its up to Eagle to decide how long their legs are.

 

Hey Grimes;

 

That is an interesting concept, I think that it would add to the simulation even more..where you were given instructions from " Command " of possible threats and CAS it will add interesting test of a pilots skills in what knowing how to use cockpit instruments..cause info was given in like " Unknown, heading 240, angels 5" ..nice idea man:thumbup:

 

Hey guys....Have you seen this? >>

Edited August 5, 2010 by SkidMark
youtub not embedding

[Grimes]

Nice to see them implementing such features for the military and proving that its possible to create such an interface. While that video illustrates potential, they still have to actually make it part of the game, otherwise we are severely limited in our multiplayer options. Which is completely unacceptable for any modern game.

[SkidMark]

Good rumors has it....We'll all be pleasantly surprised with the A-10C release. :music_whistling: