ERI In Multiplayer

[EtherealN]

I think he's channeling some previous discussions on the topic, on this forum and elsewhere, where that argument was indeed brought up even though it didn't include the "superhuman" hyperbole.

 

But for the sake of keeping things constructive, I agree that strawmen should be avoided.

[Mustang]

Voted YES for ERI in servers :)

[Sparrow]

Voted Yes.

[Insanatrix]

What is the pew pew thing, where in the last 9 pages have you seen anyone claiming that this mod will make the F-15 pilots superhuman and affecting balance?

 

I think he's channeling some previous discussions on the topic, on this forum and elsewhere, where that argument was indeed brought up even though it didn't include the "superhuman" hyperbole.

 

But for the sake of keeping things constructive, I agree that strawmen should be avoided.

 

Actually I am refering to most of the posts about it somehow giving this advantage to the F-15 that it somehow would not have if ERI was not allowed. It is a function of the aircraft. It is slightly sarcastic yes. I'm not channeling anything into this that has not previously been said. If you feel that it should be deleted or edited then feel free to.

 

The argument has gone back and forth with "yes it does, no it doesn't YES IT DOES, NO IT DOESN'T!". I think that people are even forgetting what it does and actually see it as some tool akin to cheating. I have read what it does and quite frankly aside from being able to switch from RWS TWS lock, and selective primary TWS bug it doesn't do anything that you cannot do in the sim. It just automates it which doesn't equal an advantage. It simply lets you concentrate on more important stuff rather than focusing on your radar. That is it's purpose in the real craft and with that said if it can be done in the sim I am all for it.

[Bvoiash]

Hi all, I just want to clarify certain things here. I created this thread not with the intention to force any server to allow the current ERI nor do I start it to have another pointless thread. But rather, one of the reasons is to bring all of the community (both the supporters as well as the non supporters) to one thread where they can simply show whether they support for having ERI allowed on the servers that the different squadrons run or not. As to whether or not ERI will be allowed on those servers is of course a decision that lie on the hands of those that make that sort of decision within the different squadrons. I'm sorry to those that may have misunderstood if I haven't made that clearer at the start.

 

And also I am aware of the fact that ERI has been discussed before but when that was done there was no clear indication as to how many support it and how many do not support it. This thread tries to address that by having a poll. Another purpose of this thread, something that the previous discussion didn't try to do, is to try to have the community to discuss what features should be left out of the current ERI so that it is more palatable to those that oppose it. Because I thought, from reading the previous discussion, that there are those that oppose it because of certain features that it has (not all of them). From reading this thread however I seem to have been mistaken as so far those that support it seem to want everything included while those that don't, don't want any of its features to be allowed to be used at all (not that I am against either one of the 2 groups of people by the way, I am simply stating my observation).

[Grimes]

Bvoiash,

 

If your intent is to simply ask for feature feedback in further development of the ERI mod, you've gone about it all wrong. By all means do the research, development, and testing to get it to the point where it is realistic to the data. I understand you wanted to make it "fair", but keep in mind people will always complain about balance issues no matter what. "The BFG 9000 is overpowered" ... "dolphin diving is BS" ... "&*(^ Cheese" ... "AWP Whore!" ... "OMG The Huntsman! quit being a n00b" ... "way to spamram" I can go on and on, but I think you get the point.

 

My honest opinion is to make the changes to the F-15 (ERI/LEAVU), but also work in a change or two for the other aircraft featured. Couple that with realistic mission scenarios and you've got yourself a full on Realism Mod. In addition to the standard norm of using IC to enforce specific file checks will result in having Realism Servers and Default file servers.

[Moa]

I found that with my Angle-of-Attack control (intended for VNAO use) that the current ERI export scripts don't provide enough information about the mechanical (eg. tail-hook, flap) and AoA state of your aircraft. Fortunately a small addition to the ERI scripts allowed this information to be accessed.

 

So, now it seems like we have a 2/3 majority in favor of ERI in some form it might be worth standardizing on what information should be permitted. I added the following information (and am happy to supply the modified files for inspection/integration - unfortunately the ED forums did not allow uploading of LUA scripts):

 

data[1+#data] = string.format("Mech_Info %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s %s \"%s\" %s %s\n",

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.gear.status,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.gear.value,

 

--g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.gear.main.left.rod,

--g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.gear.main.right.rod,

--g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.gear.main.nose.rod,

 

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.flaps.status,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.flaps.value,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.speedbrakes.status,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.speedbrakes.value,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.refuelingboom.status,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.refuelingboom.value,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.airintake.status,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.airintake.value,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.noseflap.status,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.noseflap.value,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.parachute.status,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.parachute.value,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.wheelbrakes.status,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.wheelbrakes.value,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.hook.status,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.hook.value,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.wing.status,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.wing.value,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.canopy.status,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.canopy.value,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.controlsurfaces.elevator.left,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.controlsurfaces.elevator.right,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.controlsurfaces.eleron.left,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.controlsurfaces.eleron.right,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.controlsurfaces.rudder.left,

g_aircraftMechanicalInfo.controlsurfaces.rudder.right,

 

LoGetAngleOfAttack(),

LoGetVerticalVelocity(),

 

LoGetPilotName(),

LoGetPlayerPlaneId(),

signal_format(g_MeObject.Type.level1,g_MeObject.Type.level2,g_MeObject.Type.level3,g_MeObject.Type.level4));

[Bvoiash]

Hi Grimes, my intention wasn't to ask for feature feedback but one of them is simply to see whether it is possible to get both the proponents and the opponents together to agree as to what feature should be included in ERI that will make it acceptable to at least most of the people that belong to those 2 groups. As I have said I thought there are those that oppose it because of certain features that ERI has and not all of them from reading previous discussion about it. Something I seem to have been wrong about.

 

About your suggestion to work in improving the Su and MiG as I understand it though, it's been something that I've been thinking about as well. As it might make the current opponents of ERI to accept it as then if that is done than it would be a win win situation for both groups of people won't it? Or am I wrong? Not that I'm promising anything here by the way. As I'm not sure myself what improvements can be done for those aircrafts. I know GGTharos mentioned something about radar memory to help the pilot keep a lock but he didn't go into detail.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Bvoiash

[Grimes]

Cant make everyone happy, nor is compromise the best solution for making a modification. Make a mod the way you want to make it and make changes based off of factual play testing feedback and results. No sense in tweaking gameplay mechanics over theoretical arguments of their impact. Its the only way to do it. Without having the preach of Valves glorious create>test>iterate method of game creation think about multiplayer missions for FC2. I bet every server has made a mission, played in it a while, and then decided to change a little here and a little there, only to repeat the same process a dozen or so times. In some cases the missions changeimmensely from their first release. Mods should be the same.

 

I think if LEAVU/ERI was originally released as a separate mod that ran on servers requiring the files to remain unchanged and for everyone is required to use it, the backlash might not have happened. But for whatever reason we got caught up in it (like we always seem to do) and ignored the idea of it being used as a "realism mod" or whatever you want to call it. It would be an ideal situation if we had some servers run default, and others with gameplay changing mods. I still maintain its an incredibly slippery slope if a server decides to pander to both sides by allowing mods in unchecked.

[Boberro]

Bvoiash,

 

"AWP Whore!"

 

 

 

"AWP noob" too.

 

 

 

HAhahah:megalol:

 

It reminds me when I killed people by Scout hidding in window in cs_italy map xD

[Total]

Just my 2 cents:

 

Like Grimes said, ERI is great when considered a realism mod.

 

The problem is that there are capabilities of the Soviet Aircraft's electronics combat suites that are not currently modeled into the game nor is there a mod for them.

 

I would say keep ERI in single player or in servers that actually allow it until at least one of the Soviet aircraft has a mod to model more realistic capabilities of the electronics combat suite. Then we'd be on our way to a realism mod (now - if someone can model in wing flex too lol!)

 

Nothing wrong with ERI, but when compared to the lack of features availabel in other aircraft, it does give the F-15 a sizeable advantage.

 

Would love to see a comparable (realistic) mod for the SU-27 or the MiG-29.

 

If the community put as much effort into actually helping advance the sim rather than bickering about someone who is trying to do just that, then maybe it would be further along :)