UV-26 And missile evasion

[FifthColumnist]

Hi all,

 

I'd like some advice on good programs for the UV-26 and SAM evasion. I am really not sure how to evade sams in the black shark, but heres what I currently attempt: As soon as I am aware of the missile launch targeting me I hit flight director and dive and turn (usually left) to bring the aircraft perpendicular to the missile launch and extend away at the lowest possible altitude possible hitting the flare release a couple of times on the way, this sometimes works but its not 100%. I am not even sure what I am trying to achieve with this, is the helicopter actually fast enough from a near standing start to out maneuver a manpad or whatever in this manner?

I usually run with the program 417 in the UV-26 but for no particular reason really.

Anyone got any advice/tracks/videos or whatever?

 

S!

FifthColumnist

[Avilator]

Hi all,

 

I'd like some advice on good programs for the UV-26 and SAM evasion. I am really not sure how to evade sams in the black shark, but heres what I currently attempt: As soon as I am aware of the missile launch targeting me I hit flight director and dive and turn (usually left) to bring the aircraft perpendicular to the missile launch and extend away at the lowest possible altitude possible hitting the flare release a couple of times on the way, this sometimes works but its not 100%. I am not even sure what I am trying to achieve with this, is the helicopter actually fast enough from a near standing start to out maneuver a manpad or whatever in this manner?

I usually run with the program 417 in the UV-26 but for no particular reason really.

Anyone got any advice/tracks/videos or whatever?

 

S!

FifthColumnist

 

Please be aware that the flares will only work against heat-seeking missiles. You have no indication of their launch except the two Mk1 eyeballs in the cockpit. It's the same deal with radar guided missiles. Seeing as how the best strategy should have you down in the weeds, putting yourself on the opposite side of something large and dense (such as a hill) from the missile is your best bet. Failing that, you have the right idea by diving and turning when you detect a launch. All you can do is attempt to over-g the missile or break lock by developing a high angular velocity relative to it. However, you should turn TOWARDS the missile, not away from it. The helicopter is not maneuverable nor fast enough to evade SAMs like fixed-wing aircraft do.

If someone more experienced sees any gaping errors in my logic, please point them out!:thumbup:

Avilator out:pilotfly:

[GGTharos]

Yeah ... you don't turn into missile threats, you put'em on the 3-9 line :)

 

In general, you can also set up your UV-26 up such that it slowly dispenses flares when you are in an area where you suspect SAMs might be. This way even if you do not see it, there is a chance of decoying the missile.

 

As said above, forget about out-maneuvering SAMs (you can out-maneuver anti-tank missiles though), and flares work only on heat-seekers.

 

Realize that running into some area and looking around like mad for missile launches is not the way to go :D

Set up a pre-emptive flare release program, and use it. Do not run into the middle of enemies.

 

Gripe 1: But GG, it's too boring to study the map and set up ingress plans etc etc.

Answer: It really is the only thing that will keep you safe

Gripe 2: But GG, this takes too long!

Answer: By comparison, so does re-flying the mission because you got some sort of explosive dart stuck in your aircraft!

[slug88]

IMO the best solution is to combine preemptive flare launching with wingman overwatch. One helo enters the target area to get into standoff range, while another observes in a hover from a couple km back to report on enemy missile launches (and other threats). This can work brilliantly in multiplayer, and allows the forward pilot to concentrate on maneuvering and weapon deployment, while the overwatch can focuse all attention on, well, overwatching.

 

Unfortunately this doesn't work in singleplayer nearly as well as it used to, ever since the wingman AI forgot how to hover in patch 1.01. Nevertheless it can still be done if you put a wingy in the overwatch formation (as opposed to hovering in an overwatch position). The AI is good at calling out missile launches, and you can even use the Cover Me command to tell them to engage the threat.

[Toadster]

Yeah ... you don't turn into missile threats, you put'em on the 3-9 line :)

 

In general, you can also set up your UV-26 up such that it slowly dispenses flares when you are in an area where you suspect SAMs might be. This way even if you do not see it, there is a chance of decoying the missile.

 

As said above, forget about out-maneuvering SAMs (you can out-maneuver anti-tank missiles though), and flares work only on heat-seekers.

 

Realize that running into some area and looking around like mad for missile launches is not the way to go :D

Set up a pre-emptive flare release program, and use it. Do not run into the middle of enemies.

 

Gripe 1: But GG, it's too boring to study the map and set up ingress plans etc etc.

Answer: It really is the only thing that will keep you safe

Gripe 2: But GG, this takes too long!

Answer: By comparison, so does re-flying the mission because you got some sort of explosive dart stuck in your aircraft!

 

+1 ::thumbup:

 

I personally use 3 -2 - 1:

 

3 = is the number of flare SEQUENCES

2 = is the number of flares to be RELEASED in a single program sequence

1 = is the TIME DELAY between flare releases

 

The description on how to set your UV-26 system (for those who don't know) is in your manual, Section 9-5.

 

S! and good luck...

[Frederf]

Flares defeat the tracking electronics and maneuvering defeats the tracking kinetics. They're pretty separate. Anything shooting at you IR spectrum is short range and rather maneuverable. Pure kinetic defeat is rather unlikely.

 

In real life locks are difficult to shake with flares when the equipment is newer than 1980 or so. Flares are to suppress initial acquisition and prevent launches due to low shooter confidence. DCS doesn't work this way however and IR SAMs will target you happily no matter what. Thankfully the flares are generally way more likely to actually break a mid-flight track than real life.

 

SAMs will still represent a threat even if lock is broken or diverted. If you and the new flare are still flying in close formation then you can still get hurt. A combination of maneuver and spoofing is best. Spoofing alone is less effective and maneuver alone is much worse than that.

[power5]

I have mine set to 120 out of both sides. So a total of 4 flares each time I press the button. I then drop left as close to the ground as possible and extend. Most SAMs come at my forward sector. As long as I am moving I can usually evade. If I do not know where the sam is, I am dead.

[GGTharos]

^^^^

This is why planning + preventive use of UV-26.

[Sarge55]

Nothing to add to the above points other than the program sequence I use which is 2-2-7

[CAT_101st]

8-2-5 here getes me a long way befor having to hit the button agin. And that is on 1 pilon not both. preferably the one closed to the targets/ threats.

[FifthColumnist]

Thanks for the tips.

 

S!

[Speed]

Keep your head on a swivel and do not fixate on any area too much. I am able to spot most of the SAMs that are launched at me by just LOOKING AROUND. Number one way of evading SAMs is to not fly into an area until you've killed all the SAMs or confirmed there are no SAMs. STAY AT LONG RANGE WHEN ENGAGING SAMs. Do NOT fly inside their engagement range. I see people dying OVER AND OVER because they don't know how to go into a hover, spot the Roland SAMs at 11 or 12 kms, and then creep forward to no closer than 8km and kill them. Knowledge is power, know where the SAMs are.