Helicopter dogfight - advice?

[Stretch]

So I managed to get myself into a pretty rare situation; one-vs-one helicopter WVR dogfighting. Here's the video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRcbjpwTX_k

 

My question is -- any advice? I know a little about fast-mover dogfighting but this was a completely new situation. Anything I did wrong (other than nearly hit the ground due to rotor wash)?

[element1108]

Cool vid, you did alright for not really being in the situation that much. I personally find it easier to leave the schval out of it and use standard WWII type attacks. Place the pipper on the target, keeping in mind deflection and nice short bursts. If your on his six, just get in as close as you can and a quick burst without moving the schval and locking into position is much easier for me.

 

Not sure if that helps any, in the vid you just had to worry about too many things to really be an efficient attack/defender (hence almost dying rotor wash).

[connos]

Very good video!!! My suggestion is to not use the schval if you get so close as element1108 suggests.

[Stretch]

So when you say "don't use the Shkval", do you mean use the HMD to slew the target reticle, or switch to fixed cannon mode and point your nose at the enemy?

[Bucic]

First of all you should not get close to other helis. All your opponents are 2-seat helis with huge gun coverage angles. In other words this discussion is like the 'how to kill a tank using a funnel maneuver?" - a discussion about suicidal maneuvers.

 

If you got within the range of even barely visual and you are not hyper-suicidal but only moderately suicidal you should prepare high explosive ammo, high rate of fire and the long burst mode and take enemy helis out ASAP from the longest range possible. If you spare ammo in such a situation (short bursts) you're hyper-suicidal and I can't help you. Try

;)

[Frederf]

It's frustrating to try to TA a maneuver helo isn't it? Zoomed out is a bit easier usually.

 

If you're in a gun fight you got too close. It's usually best to run and attack from a position of strength. If you're trying to maneuver, lock, survive, etc. all at the same time. It's not a position of strength. Never mind the manically violent dance floor you two were twirling around on.

 

Dim your HUD and HMS so you can actually see the world through them. Full bright makes life hard.

 

Vikhrs on AA mode (possibly head-on as well) in the 10-2km range. When inside 2km go guns guns guns. Even if you TA'd the bandit at close range a Vikhr shot would be very tough and not any better than lead at that point. When you got to some 500m without locking then it's definitely time to go WWI style. Not only will you actually get rounds in the air and him on the defensive, you can stop fiddling with the impossible.

 

At the merge you could have sent Wingy on a pincer right/left to extend and then after 10 sec a "engage bandits" command. Given an extend/rejoin the wingman would have a much easier time than you. You can also "drag n' bag" by turning and running and letting Wingy get the kill, or vice versa if the bandit goes for him.

 

Keeping the speed up to about 200 kmph and being smoother with the controls would allow a much less bumpy ride. Being slow and jerky makes life difficult.

[flanker0ne]

Switch to "Gun Sight" and engage like a fighter in boresight mode, remember the story about the "laser burning due to continous measure"....

[connos]

So when you say "don't use the Shkval", do you mean use the HMD to slew the target reticle, or switch to fixed cannon mode and point your nose at the enemy?

 

Yes. As others mention you may burn you laser using it like in the video. Also keep distance from you target zone or fly/hover close to friendly AA guns when you try to locate you targets so they can provide you with cover, engage from distance is your best strategy. Also mention by Frederf sending your wingman for AA kills is a good idea so you can focus on your mission.

Edited October 18, 2010 by connos

[Bushmanni]

Lot's of good advice already, but here's some other tips you can do. You can also aim the gun with helmet sight by keeping the "O" button pressed continuously. This takes some practice and only works for <500m range but it can be faster than WW2 style. It's also good to turn the laser off so the ballistic computer wont screw your shot if you try to lead the target manually as the laser range might not be the range to target but to somewhere far away behind him. For targets farther away(1-2km), I would point the Shkval approximately to the target with helmet sight and then correct the aim manually and then fire without locking and adjusting aim according to tracers. Gun will fire with approximately flat trajectory to about 1.5km and it's still pretty easy to hit targets to 2km without laser range. Just point the Shkval to target and start shooting instead of messing with locking and laser ranging.

[GGTharos]

With the close range you got to, just forget the Shkval. What are you doing wasting time screwing around with helmet sights and monitors? Eyes GLUED on the bandit, gun boresight, point and shoot. At that distance you're missing only because you're trying ;)

[Bucic]

Keeping the speed up to about 200 kmph and being smoother with the controls would allow a much less bumpy ride. Being slow and jerky makes life difficult.

:thumbup:

[Stretch]

Thanks for the advice guys, it's clear to me now how I went so utterly wrong. :) When I get home I'll start up the track and give it a second go.

[Meehau-]

Using Shkval has only sense when distance is about 8-9km when you have time to shoot and evade. When jumped by enemy attack helos, the best way is always to evade and disengage, because dealing with AI is extreme risk. One can consider taking a fight versus Cobra or Hind, but head to head with Apache armed with Hellfire is certain death. Here`s my track how I dealt with 4x Ah-1W (elite), guns only. This tactics works only when there is no hi-altitude threat such as jets& air defences.

So here it is:

 

http://stud.pam.szczecin.pl/~meehau/4to0.trk

 

Take a note how I climbed when detected. Ka-50 climb rate seems to be quite good to employ spiral like pattern. Being above them is key point because virtually all choppers` guns turrets have limited shoot up capability (for they are designed mainly to engage targets on the ground). Next I just spirall over them and choose good time for attack. I make my attack and zoom up to safety. It`s quite difficult as ka-50 barely tolerates deep banks, picks up speed very fast and it`s easy to over-G during rapid manuevers.

 

Second tactic is when it`s possible to hide in terrain (mountains, valleys etc). You need then to let enemy helos merge past you and then pop up on their six o clock. AI acts pretty poor when engaged from behind, it`s unable to outturn you. It`s only deadly when engaged head on.

[Bushmanni]

When you use Shkval you get stabilation which makes targeting more accurate and also faster if you can slew it fast (with ministick). Of course you wouldn't aim with the camera but with the little green circle in the HUD. I have found this the most quickest and accurate way of shooting down helicopters with the gun. Set the gun for high ROF and HE, turn laser off, any targeting modes off and Shkval on stand by. When you see a target, point nose so that the target is within gun movement constraints, aim with the helmet sight and uncage the Shkval, adjust with ministick through the HUD and shoot. Very easy and quick kill and requires pretty much no flying skills at all.

[Woots]

Even if you shoot them down they can take you with them

 

 

Woots