California may legalize marijuana

[asparagin]

Well the results are there: Yes / No = 55% / 45 %

[Steel Jaw]

So is that binding? Will it now be legalized?

[AlphaOneSix]

Well the results are there: Yes / No = 55% / 45 %

 

That's backwards. The results are actually:

 

No: 54.7%

Yes: 45.3%

[asparagin]

That's backwards. The results are actually:

 

No: 54.7%

Yes: 45.3%

 

Sorry, you're right.. I mixed them up.

[RIPTIDE]

Sorry, you're right.. I mixed them up.

lololol. Ya... great advert you are for Weed. :lol::lol:

[asparagin]

lololol. Ya... great advert you are for Weed. :lol::lol:

 

Who said I smoke weed?

What I will advert for, is to stop being hypocritical, you should try it also, who knows maybe you'll like it.

[RIPTIDE]

Who said I smoke weed?

What I will advert for, is to stop being hypocritical, you should try it also, who knows maybe you'll like it.

I ain't hypocritical. You can assume this becasue you don't know a lot about me. But you: making this mistake while supporting legalizing majiuana in this thread? = priceless. LMAO.

[mikoyan]

Legalized or not people will smoke that stuff anyway; but what people should understand is that drugs trafficking destroys lives everywhere; To me the cost in lives is just to high to go high LIKE AN IDOT; instead people should go high for real and jump with a parachute form an airplane; or free climb a 3500 ft mountain.

[Jinro]

Typically, people who smoke (be it tobacco or weed) don't give a rat's ass about anyone else and only care about their high/buzz.

[asparagin]

Again you are talking about excesses. Do you think the guy who has to drink his vodka at 9 in the the morning, so he can go home beat his wife at lunch and go into coma in the evening is something healthy? Either for himself of for the society?

 

Here how recently drugs have been categorized taken into account not only the harm to the consumer but also the harm to environment:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210

Put yourself the question why is alcohol allowed and think in terms of economy and society.

 

And for gods sake: Just don't take everything that's been feed to you. Read more and make opinions for yourself. Template opinions are like DCS: A-10 for Xbox.

Edited November 4, 2010 by asparagin

[Jinro]

why is alcohol allowed

It does have some health benefits. And as you said previously, "you're talking about excesses". That and prohibition in the US did more harm than good. I know first-hand that Japan and South Korea like their liquor, and they don't suffer quite the same amount of societal problems as we in the West do (I chalk that up to the fact that we Americans are for the most part immature and have no respect for others). Tobacco, on the other hand, has no health benefits and kills some 443,000 people in the United States every year (per CDC data).

 

That BBC "harm score" is a load of crap. Tobacco should be at the top of the list, considering that second-hand smoke hurts those who don't even use tobacco.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Jinro

[Frostie]

So my mom told me lies, 2 wrongs does make a right?

[Frostie]

Here how recently drugs have been categorized taken into account not only the harm to the consumer but also the harm to environment:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210

Put yourself the question why is alcohol allowed and think in terms of economy and society.

Right or wrong, alcohol is part of culture in a lot of countries, in the UK for example getting pissssed up at the weekend and socialising with buddies old and new is part of life. But unfortunately this also brings out plenty of violence and crime from less civilised revellers.

So for alcohol to be at the top of a chart for crime and harm etc. doesn't surprise me at all and shouldn't surprise you.

 

What I can't fathom is why when we already have these vices (alcohol and tobacco) so embedded through generations as accepted products, you see it a great idea to add even more vices to these two, so our future generations can screw their lives up even more than the current generation does with even more options. Time to put the pipe down and get a dose of reality.

[asparagin]

What I can't fathom is why when we already have these vices (alcohol and tobacco) so embedded through generations as accepted products, you see it a great idea to add even more vices to these two, so our future generations can screw their lives up even more than the current generation does with even more options. Time to put the pipe down and get a dose of reality.

 

This is a problem, I agree. You mention it also in your early post, which btw is the only post from the opposing camp that actually had a point.

 

Furthermore you correctly recognized the problem: "increasing the diversity of vices".

My impression is that if you put the benefits and the downsides that the legalization would bring on a balance, the benefits are in surplus. And like in most of the times where there is no perfect solution, I believe legalization is a better way.

[RIPTIDE]

Again you are talking about excesses. Do you think the guy who has to drink his vodka at 9 in the the morning, so he can go home beat his wife at lunch and go into coma in the evening is something healthy? Either for himself of for the society?

 

Here how recently drugs have been categorized taken into account not only the harm to the consumer but also the harm to environment:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210

Put yourself the question why is alcohol allowed and think in terms of economy and society.

 

And for gods sake: Just don't take everything that's been feed to you. Read more and make opinions for yourself. Template opinions are like DCS: A-10 for Xbox.

Some countries alcohol is banned. But then we're onto a discussion of relative morality,... which could be a 30 page epic. :)

[Bucic]

Thought this world was trying to discourage the plague of casual smoking. With alcohol reaching epic levels of consumption by the underaged, common sense should prevail. Most of us have experienced the wonders of da weed and most have seen what a life wasting drug it is if used excessively. To legalise it adds another plight on the future prospects of the next generation. But in the end freedom of choice is the buzz word of the last 50+years, for good or bad we'll all see the results.

Agreed.

PDF: Marijuana and Mental Health Report - a survey of recent research

A collection of studies results from all around the world. Some studies lasted for more than 10 years! It's all easy reading like the example below

A 2007 study of 3,239 Australian young

adults from birth to age 21 found a

relationship between early initiation, and

frequent use of cannabis and symptoms

of anxiety and depression, regardless of a

personal or family history of mental illness.

(Hayatbakhsh, 2007)

 

There are also exerts mentioning the influence of mari on people with 'predispositions'. You may think 'Buzz off, I don't have any wacko predispositions. Well, sorry to break it to you, but even being an introvert ('quiet' type of personality) makes the risk higher.

 

Alcohol and tobacco IMO waste WAY more lives.

Let me hit you in your face with a shovel. Hey, don't be a wussy, a sledge hammer would be much worse.

 

People who use that kind of 'logic' should have their... well, they can keep their driving licenses but definitely say goodbye to their college diplomas. It also means that they can't focus and thus should not be let anywhere near flying equipment :music_whistling:

 

 

EDIT:

So my mom told me lies, 2 wrongs does make a right?

 

Right or wrong, alcohol is part of culture in a lot of countries, in the UK for example getting pissssed up at the weekend and socialising with buddies old and new is part of life. But unfortunately this also brings out plenty of violence and crime from less civilised revellers.

So for alcohol to be at the top of a chart for crime and harm etc. doesn't surprise me at all and shouldn't surprise you.

 

What I can't fathom is why when we already have these vices (alcohol and tobacco) so embedded through generations as accepted products, you see it a great idea to add even more vices to these two, so our future generations can screw their lives up even more than the current generation does with even more options. Time to put the pipe down and get a dose of reality.

:thumbup: ^2

Edited November 13, 2010 by Bucic

[Bucic]

Have you noticed that pot advocates "have all figured out"? Well, let me present you with something right now

George Carlin's Greatest Moment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV1lZMTCqf8

 

Now combine this GREAT speech (that mentions passive people; remembering that mari has longer than one-day effect) with this

(from a Marijuana & Bodybuilding video).

[hassata]

tmviQBB5DHs

 

At the end of the day, you can't police consent, nor legislate morality.

[Bucic]

Did you intend your post to be a reply to my post. If you did, it's ^2 not on the subject. I only presented a single proven consequence that alone should discourage any thinking person from supporting mari legalization. Also, not without satisfaction/pun, I highlighted how lot's of mari supporters claim to be politically aware meanwhile supporting dumbing down of people. Bernanke says "Thank you very much!" :doh:

 

BTW, you know perfectly well that vast majority of mari supporters don't give a rat's a* about people with cancer in a sense that they don't support legalization solely or even mainly to help those people, so we can safely drop the medical aspect of mari and not get back to it ever.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Bucic

[hassata]

It wasn't a reply to your post. But how about the police? Do you think they support legalization? Before you answer, go ask a few in Warsaw or wherever you happen to be. I think you'll be surprised by the answer, because most of them would rather be out chasing robbers, rapists, and killers. And that's where their bosses would rather spend their budgets as well. You can't police consent means if someone wants to buy a bag of weed and smoke it at home, and someone wants to sell him, it becomes futile to try and prevent it. They tried to do it with alcohol and failed. It's just idiotic to keep spending trillions on this problem without any result. Better to spend the money on education and treatment. And the only reason politicians keep doing it is to assuage people such as yourself.

 

P.S. I don not smoke nor drink, but support an adult's right to make that particular decision for himself.

[Bucic]

Ah, ok, sorry then.

 

Police? Half of them would prefer to do nothing so I wouldn't consider it a factor :)

 

Adults... The main problem is legalization will make it available easily for everyone. For youngsters just a little bit harder. Same with weapons. It's EASIER and cheaper to control it when it's not allowed to have arms at all in a certain country (such as Poland).

 

BTW, what legalization advocates do is 5% making effort to make it legal and 95% to make it seem uber cool to smoke. There's no youngster-filter that would make them unaffected by this. So it's kind of like mari itself is less dangerous than @#$ promoting it. Unfortunately there's not one without the other.

 

I like to call myself ultraRationalist so I wouldn't be myself if I didn't research lessons learned in Netherlands. I remember squat but Hitchens in this debate cites some bits

 

1/2 - Peter Hitchens - Drugs (20.06.2011) - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=070eBUyMaZE&list=PL4AA9035A91E61A00&index=3

[hassata]

Police? Half of them would prefer to do nothing so I wouldn't consider it a factor

:D

[EtherealN]

The main problem is legalization will make it available easily for everyone. For youngsters just a little bit harder.

 

I would note that when I was underage, there was zero difference in the difficulty involved in obtaining marijuana, tobacco and alcohol. In all cases you just made a phone call and had your "stuff" 30 minutes later. If the objective of criminalizing it is to make it unavailable, it has been an complete failure.

 

The real difference was that in the case of tobacco and alcohol, the state got a large share in the revenue, in the case of illegal stuff it was the mob that took the money. (Compare with the american prohibition.) For my country, roughly half the price of a pack of cigarettes go to the state in special tobacco tax and VAT. (Total price for one pack of 19 is 49 SEK, 23 SEK in taxes.)

 

BTW, what legalization advocates do is 5% making effort to make it legal and 95% to make it seem uber cool to smoke.

 

I'd like to see a source on this. Most "legalization advocates" I know don't smoke - indeed most of them don't do any drugs, legal or illegal, aside from caffeine.

 

The most common motivators to legalization here are one of two:

1) Ideological and ethical. Usually libertarians.

2) Practical. Usually police and prosecutors that find their budgets being eaten by chasing "kids and trash" filling penitentiaries with "small-timers" while the distributors go free since they are much harder to catch and the resources for those investigations simply aren't there.

[Bucic]

@EtherealN

You brought it down to just technical difficulty of acquiring a portion. It's not the only factor. Furthermore the "within the reach of your hand" factor is a simple, proven and universal one that works on everything - be it mari, cookies, bubble gum or porn. The only element that could negate it I can think of is the "forbidden fruit" factor.

 

You seem to try to make "legalization advocates" be perceived as trustworthy, community respected men in suits :) Those I know do smoke and are in their early twenties, tops. The difference may come from the differences between environments we both spend most of our time. Also I can't stress enough how it is less important what those we personally know do/talk than those who we see on the forums, in comments on TV... i.e. those who have bigger impact in general perception of mari. Of that group many behave like mari was p*sy, which alone make me wanna punch them on the spot. Incidentally this also shows one of the big differences between alcohol and mari. Mental absorption is stronger. Whether it comes from chemicals or "culture" is irrelevant.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Bucic

[Vault]

Alcohol and weed should be banned outright. Weed makes you stupid, docile and lethargic and it's been linked to Schizophrenia. How many children and men/women are at the mercy of of abusive partners that drink?.