WIP DCS A-10C and Teamspeak 3 Integration

[Osmo]

TARS is great, but the sound quality seems to be a bit too good for coming over radio.

 

Sometimes it sounds like the other guy is sitting next to you, as the voice quality is so good. Some kind of high-pass filter would probably be enough, to filter out the bass from the sound. I think there is some kind of DSP filter in TARS already, but it doesn't filter out enough of the frequencies.

 

The problem becomes very clear when you have a good quality mic that captures wide range of frequencies, and good quality headphones/speakers on the other end to listen. We've tried reducing the quality of the TS3 channel but that doesn't bring the required effect, the frequencies are not filtered out much, the overall quality is just decreased. High-pass filter / band-pass filter focusing at around 1KHz might be the ideal solution.

 

Good example of an excellent radio filter is in the ACRE, which is similar plugin for TS3 made for ArmA 2 game. In that one there is some kind of DSP filtering which makes it really sound like it's coming over a radio.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Osmo

[Headspace]

There are already multiple filters, including high pass. The tuning has been done to accomodate the entire user base, based on feedback.

 

The other mod you're referring to probably still uses the same filter library as TARS (it's an MIT licensed package) although I haven't discussed it with them recently. It isn't a matter of type of filter used, but curve adjustment. When I tuned it in the other direction last year, I got a significant amount of feedback from people who wanted it to be made easier to hear.

 

I've been talking on the real radio a lot lately. I really doubt the average consumer who plays DCS A-10 is going to want TARS turned to what the actual quality of VHF transmissions is. In the future I may offer it as a config option, but there's some other important stuff going on right now that is taking up my attention.

[Osmo]

Thanks for your reply and for your work in this awesome plugin!

 

It isn't a matter of type of filter used, but curve adjustment. When I tuned it in the other direction last year, I got a significant amount of feedback from people who wanted it to be made easier to hear.

 

This is a bit surprising to me. I would had thought that since DCS is a hardcore simulation game, the DCS users would be people who want to have their gaming experience to be as close to real as possible. For me simulation gaming is usually the better the more realistic it is.

 

I've been talking on the real radio a lot lately. I really doubt the average consumer who plays DCS A-10 is going to want TARS turned to what the actual quality of VHF transmissions is.

 

Perhaps some kind of compromise in the filtering might satisfy more users. How about cutting slightly back on the distortion effects to keep it clearer and easier to hear than in real life, but keeping the frequency filtering as it is in real, as it won't affect the clarity of the voice much?

 

In the future I may offer it as a config option, but there's some other important stuff going on right now that is taking up my attention.

 

Config option would be ideal solution, and most likely satisfy all users.

 

As a temporary solution, I was looking into downloading older version of TARS. Which version has the most realistic sound filtering?

[Headspace]

Also, if you're the same guy who just sent the ACRE dev team an email, I'm going to repeat myself here: The core DSP package is [mostly] the same. It isn't the sort of thing one reinvents when there are very good packages out there that are licensed under just about any open license you could choose from. Although we have both added some proprietary DSP technology ourselves to each respective mod. It's also worth pointing out that the ACRE people are attempting to include land-based, digital radios that do not fall under the feature set of what TARS is attempting to provide.

 

I'm not offended and I'm sure you're just trying to help, but I've been answering this question for over a year whenever issues of technology come up. It is about what the users have asked for. If you want "full real," you had better get used to having the volume a lot higher and trying to make out what people are saying.

 

The community is not going to come to a consensus anytime soon about what constitutes "realistic enough" vs. "burdensome enough." If I made the distortion worse in one direction, people will complain that it the distortion being too high. And vice versa. User-adjustability is the only way to make everyone happy.

Which version has the most realistic sound filtering?

Which brings me back to the point as to what you consider "most realistic." Is "realistic" equivalent to "difficult to make out?" Do you want it to sound like a military ARC or something far cheaper? This is a subjective metric.

 

There's a guy a few buildings away from the airport who has a scanner set up, that he streams onto the net, and you can hear ATC and airplanes talking. It sounds awful when an airplane transmits, why? Because his transmitter is probably a whole lot weaker than the tower's, and he's on the ground when he's taxiing and starting, causing the signal to have to go through a bunch of buildings and terrain. People will take recordings such as the one I've described, which are uncharacteristically garbled, and suggest I make it sound like that--this is an example of what one person thinks is "realistic."

 

My opinion is that right now, the TARS audio is turned to the point where interference and distortion are slightly less than what you would actually hear, at least in the VHF range. But not by a great deal. It would be easier if people could link recordings of what they want it to sound like--that's the only way to objectively show me what you want to hear.

 

I do appreciate the continual feedback though!

Edited April 12, 2012 by Headspace

[Osmo]

Again thanks for your reply.

 

Also, if you're the same guy who just sent the ACRE dev team an email

Yep, that's me. :)

 

The community is not going to come to a consensus anytime soon about what constitutes "realistic enough" vs. "burdensome enough." If I made the distortion worse in one direction, people will complain that it the distortion being too high. And vice versa. User-adjustability is the only way to make everyone happy.

 

Yes I think you are right. There will always be many different opinions of what sounds realistic, and also many different opinions of where is the the right spot in the balance between realism and usability. User-adjustability is the best solution.

 

 

Which brings me back to the point as to what you consider "most realistic." Is "realistic" equivalent to "difficult to make out?" Do you want it to sound like a military ARC or something far cheaper? This is a subjective metric.

 

For me the main thing that makes the ACRE radio feel more realistic is the difference in the frequency filtering, more than the distortion effects. You are right that they are simulating different types of radios than what TARS is, but one thing common for both types of radios are that they only transmit a certain band of frequencies from the voice, cutting the other (especially low) frequencies off.

 

It appears that in the ACRE mod, the cut-off frequency for the high-pass/band-pass filter is much higher, thus cutting out more of the low frequency sounds and making it sound more "radio-like" for me. In TARS, currently, especially in the UHF radio, the frequency range that is being received from other players seems to be "too complete", mainly because the lower frequencies are not filtered out as much. Having these low frequencies included takes away from immersion and makes you feel like the person talking to you is next to you. This is less noticeable with some microphones, as some microphones already filter out these lower frequencies and sound more radio-like by default.

 

Changing the cut-off frequency a bit higher would not necessarily make it more difficult to make out, it might even have an opposite effect as the sound in the middle frequencies contain the important parts of a voice.

 

To find a solution for this, we've been trying different methods, like TS3 radio plugins, etc, but unfortunately there just is not a plugin that would simply work as a DSP band-pass or high-pass filter.

 

One working solution is to use programs such as Voice Change Software which allows you to apply DSP filter to the microphone before it's sent out to other programs like TS3. Simply filtering out those lower frequencies below 280 kHz already brings a significant improvement and makes the voice sound more radio-like. Unfortunately we've been unable to find a free program that would do that, and eventually it would be ideal if TARS would do this automatically.

 

As for the distortion, I wouldn't mind a bit more distortion as well, for bringing in more immersion, even if it would make it a bit harder to hear. One distortion effect which I've noticed in audio recordings of military air radios is clipping of the sound (for example

and

).

 

Anyways, it sounds like in earlier version the filtering has been quite good, so it would be very nice if you could bring those earlier filter settings as an option in a future version. Perhaps in TARS config, or in the TARS TS3 plugin settings there could be a simple drop down box where user could select from different filtering presets.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Osmo

[Headspace]

Well, the good news is that the frequency filtering is already implemented as of last year and all that it takes to change it is to tweak one or two values. Keep in mind that the type of filter (Chebyshev, etc) can influence things as well, but there are several that are used in practice. I can make the filtered frequency levels (like bandpass cutoffs) user-configurable in the future.

 

www.liveatc.net is generally a good place to go if you want to hear VHF radio traffic. You might try listening to a Class C or B airport's approach or tower; there's almost always something going on during the day in those places.

[Osmo]

Well, the good news is that the frequency filtering is already implemented as of last year and all that it takes to change it is to tweak one or two values. Keep in mind that the type of filter (Chebyshev, etc) can influence things as well, but there are several that are used in practice. I can make the filtered frequency levels (like bandpass cutoffs) user-configurable in the future.

Nice to hear that! Looking forward to the next version.

 

www.liveatc.net is generally a good place to go if you want to hear VHF radio traffic. You might try listening to a Class C or B airport's approach or tower; there's almost always something going on during the day in those places.

Thanks for the link. Listening to to NY Approach (JFK Final Vectors) at the moment. :)

[qwasder]

I could use a clear answer to this question:

 

Does it matter which way of mic activation is used in TeamSpeak?

I use voice-activation and a buddy is using PTT (we both use the standard mic-switch config Ctrl 1 - 3). We have yet to get TARS to work properly. :(

 

It works perfectly with ACRE.

TARS seems to have issues with that, though.

Edited April 16, 2012 by qwasder

[daribouca]

Hi! Perhaps this issue already has been addressed in the 50+ posts threads, I could not find anything.

Several guys in my squadron are having trouble with TARS shortcuts; in-game, they-re unable to activate their VHF radios. TS and TARS are working fine, as we can communicate via the UHF.

Depressing CTRL1 or 3 seems to do just nothing ...

 

Could anyone give me a pointer?

[Headspace]

It shouldn't matter if you use PTT or not. If you don't, the normal PTT keys are used to switch radios. People who are having problems need to submit logs of the problem occurring.

[daribouca]

By PTT, do you mean one has to keep CTRL1/3 depressed to speak via VHF?

The logs so far reveals nothing, but I think I have to create a "temp" dir for TARS to create the main log, or change the path in the lua. Is that right?

[Turk10mm]

Hi Headspace, a member of our wing is having some trouble with TARS. The only radio that shows up in teamspeak having a frequency assigned is the UHF radio, forward and aft both show 0.000. He said that out of the blue it fixed itself temporarily the other day, but he's unsure why the other two radios aren't working.

 

Verified that the radios are on and apu gen power is on, which was the first thing that came to mind. He's installed the newest version of TS as well as the previous version 02 I think that is currently supported with no change.

 

What's strange is he has partial function with UHF.

[towsim]

ATC Radio

 

Hi Headspace,

I just started the development of a standalone ATC radio box. Since our community (vJaBoG32) uses TARS for radio communications, the best way would be to use the same standards that TARS uses. At the moment I develop the application frame as TS3 plug in. It all works so far. The next step would be to evaluate and set the frequency information in the received and transmitted packages. Do you see any possibility to provide the necessary internal information how to modify and evaluate the voice packages out of a TS3 plug in? It would help our community to integrate tower and radar control in the simulation.

Best Regards,

BOSSHOG

[Kaiza]

Hi Headspace,

I just started the development of a standalone ATC radio box. Since our community (vJaBoG32) uses TARS for radio communications, the best way would be to use the same standards that TARS uses. At the moment I develop the application frame as TS3 plug in. It all works so far. The next step would be to evaluate and set the frequency information in the received and transmitted packages. Do you see any possibility to provide the necessary internal information how to modify and evaluate the voice packages out of a TS3 plug in? It would help our community to integrate tower and radar control in the simulation.

Best Regards,

BOSSHOG

 

 

Wow, thats awesome towsim, well done!

 

Once working it would be great if this could then be expanded for the battle commander/ JTAC once combined arms arrives! :thumbup:

[Headspace]

I'm not sure what you mean by "voice packages." Could you clarify that?

[towsim]

Hi Headspace,

my question bases on assumptions. So I assume, that a certain kind of additional information must be given from a connected TARS client to all other TARS clients. This additional information would be the frequency a client is talking on. So the receiving client can filter out the voice stream (packages) of frequencies which are not tuned in his local boxes. I made several test on different callbacks in the plug in to evaluate the receiving information. I had no luck up to now.

What I am planning to do is to connect my existing radio application via shared memory to my TS3 plug in. Based on the selected channel on the radio GUI, I would suppress all voice streams which do not fit in my channel composition. Vice versa, the transmitted voice must be earmarked in any way, with the frequency information of the channel, which is selected on the radio GUI. Finally, I do not know what screw I have to tighten.

Best regards

BOSSHOG

[Headspace]

The Teamspeak API supports inter-client communication with its plugin command feature. If you don't want to establish a socket between clients (which is probably a good idea to avoid if you can help it), you should use that.

[towsim]

Hi Headspace,

is that the technique TARS uses or is it a suggestion how to exchange information? Today I made several tests with two TARS clients talking out of the cockpit. I catch the callback 'ts3plugin_processCommand' in my ATCradio plug in. The function was never invoked . It would not be that complicated to define an own protocol , but I am bound to the TARS standard because at the other end of the ATC radio will be TARS clients.

Best Regards,

BOSSHOG

[Headspace]

Hi Headspace,

is that the technique TARS uses or is it a suggestion how to exchange information? Today I made several tests with two TARS clients talking out of the cockpit. I catch the callback 'ts3plugin_processCommand' in my ATCradio plug in. The function was never invoked . It would not be that complicated to define an own protocol , but I am bound to the TARS standard because at the other end of the ATC radio will be TARS clients.

Best Regards,

BOSSHOG

It's a suggestion on how to exchange information. In your plugin. I would learn the Teamspeak 3 API if you want to do something with it.

 

In the future there may be some kind of publication for how TARS clients talk, but I don't have the bandwidth to produce something like that now--particularly because things are currently being changed in several ways.

[towsim]

Hi Headspace,

Many thanks for your answers. I see, I have to go my own way.

 

Best Regards,

BOSSHOG

[Osmo]

Hi! Perhaps this issue already has been addressed in the 50+ posts threads, I could not find anything.

Several guys in my squadron are having trouble with TARS shortcuts; in-game, they-re unable to activate their VHF radios. TS and TARS are working fine, as we can communicate via the UHF.

Depressing CTRL1 or 3 seems to do just nothing ...

 

Could anyone give me a pointer?

It works fine for us. Make sure that your VHF radios are on (TR) and in the same frequency. Note that if you are trying it on the ground, the VHF radios need power to be on (ground power, APU+APU gen, or engines + AC gens)

Edited April 23, 2012 by Osmo

[ChesterCopperpot]

Hi Headspace.

First I would like to say thanks and great job with TARS.

I just upgraded TS3 to 3.0.6 and realized TARS is not compatiable with the new version. I am sure have been working on a update but should I roll back to the earlier version of TS or is there a way to get TARS working with the new version?

 

Thanks,

Copper

[daribouca]

It works fine for us. Make sure that your VHF radios are on (TR) and in the same frequency. Note that if you are trying it on the ground, the VHF radios need power to be on (ground power, APU+APU gen, or engines + AC gens)

 

Thanks for your input !

 

We already made sure that AC GENs were running. Thing is, the shortcut key just does not work.

 

There are no known conflict (we checked with alternatives shortcuts keys), and it happens to several guys in the Wing. Kinda weird ...

[Headspace]

To answer your question about the new version of TS: I can't until I've had the opportunity to test it. I'm sure I'll have things sorted by the weekend. Please stay tuned. In the meantime it won't hurt you to use 3.0.5.

[Disablez]

Daribouca, we're having the same exact issue for some time, haven't found a solution so far. And it happens only sometimes, so no misconfiguration on your side.