F22 Crash

[Shaman]

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123231773

[HemingwayFE]

There's no discernable way to tell what may have happened. Speculating at this point is a moot point.

[S.T.A.LK.E.R.]

Rest in peace............

[SuperKungFu]

Rest in peace

 

I believe the reason for the crash was because he, along with another F-22, was practicing individual intercepts. It may have been possible during the heat of the simulated battle, he lost track of his position and hit the side of the mountain.

[tflash]

Indeed, in such a case you are not using a terrain following radar mode; you will get I imagine a GCAS alert, but too late.

[mikoyan]

There is a picture of the crash site and it looks like a crater; it looks more like an meteorite impact.

[tflash]

Auto-GCAS is only foreseen in the increment 3.2 upgrade; but first the increment 3.1 will take four years to implement from 2011 onwards, essentially adding a SAR radar mode and enhanced geolocation capabilities.

[nscode]

Yes, but events like these can change/reorder the upgrade schedule.

[Succellus]

At least he died doing what he loved... How many can have this luck.

Raise a drink for his soul...

The dead are not to be mourned, but to be saluted!

[Antartis]

http://usaf.aib.law.af.mil/ExecSum2011/F-22A_AK_16%20Nov%2010.pdf

[GGTharos]

Thanks, good read.

[topol-m]

I read the conclusion of the report Antartis gave a link to and I have 2 questions guys:

 

1. Isn't it a normal reaction if you are experiencing breathing issues to get off the mask, cause the investigation found out the pilot wore his mask all the way down?

 

2. The aircraft hit the ground at an angle of 48 degrees and with speed of Mach 1.1, isn't there an alarm in the Raptor to warn the pilot when the aircraft is on a crash course? I didn't see one mentioned in the report, but the maneuverable this aircraft is after hearing such warning it should be fairly easy to level it manually or even to press a single button to activate the autopilot and maintain a level flight.

[mvsgas]

There are alarms on all aircraft, but when you are disoriented and don't know which way is up, the alarm won't help you. At that mach speed, how many seconds would it take to hit the ground? 10, 12? Seem like a long time when you are looking at the clock, completely different when you are task saturated, suffering for hypoxia, a combination of both or what ever affected the pilot.

Edited December 19, 2011 by mvsgas

[tflash]

Well, I'm not sure I find it a good read. The reports seems to me too assertive in blaming the pilot for failing to save his own life. It would have been more decent to point at the combination of factors and acknowledge that a hazardous situation arose from the bleed air malfunction.

 

But I'm sure the board president will take the air in an F-22 to show how the pilot should have responded.

[GGTharos]

I read the conclusion of the report Antartis gave a link to and I have 2 questions guys:

 

1. Isn't it a normal reaction if you are experiencing breathing issues to get off the mask, cause the investigation found out the pilot wore his mask all the way down?

 

I think that is usually not the case. The mask will provide you with a lot of air/oxygen. With cabin pressure gone, taking the mask off doesn't help.

 

2. The aircraft hit the ground at an angle of 48 degrees and with speed of Mach 1.1, isn't there an alarm in the Raptor to warn the pilot when the aircraft is on a crash course? I didn't see one mentioned in the report, but the maneuverable this aircraft is after hearing such warning it should be fairly easy to level it manually or even to press a single button to activate the autopilot and maintain a level flight.

 

Possibly, but you'd have to know what the alarm is for and how it's mechanized. Often there's a pull-up issued, IIRC, at the moment you need to execute a 4g recovery - but keep in mind that terrain altitude may not actually be factored in.

[Phantom88]

Interesting article concerning the crash and recent incidents with The F-22.

http://www.adn.com/2011/12/21/2227997/fatal-problems-plague-f-22-americas.html

[manfrez01]

R.I.P

[wess24m]

"We continue to implement improvements to the aircraft's life support systems and are carefully collecting and analyzing operational, maintenance and physiological data for all Raptor flights," said Maj. Chad Steffey, an Air Force spokesman.

 

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2011/12/21/2227997/fatal-problems-plague-f-22-americas.html#storylink=cpy

 

lets hope that a functioning life support system is considered a "improvement" :(

[mikoyan]

The report gives some hints of the incredible performance of the raptor; 1.6 Mach no burners and a climb to more than 15700m, holly crap!

I think that the 1.7 maximal speed is bs; Imagine what is the max celling of that jet! Probably close to foxbat levels!

[hassata]

And that's how he was getting back to base lol. Amazing.

 

Nice article, thanks. Why not install bottles until the mess is sorted out?

 

Anyway, I think the views of the crew chiefs on the forum would be interesting.

[tflash]

An article with a pilot's view: http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2011/12/23/f-22-mishap-blames-pilot-not-oxy-system/

[mvsgas]

Why not install bottles until the mess is sorted out?

 

It is not a simple thing to change that, and there might be more to it than we know to the report. On the 22, there are 7 to 8 different systems working together, taking out the OBOGS means you may have to redesign all those system as well ( not sure if you would need to, just going on very little knowledge on the way it works on the 22) Also, there may be some warranted items, so the AF can't just say:"we will do x to fix it". They have to allow LM to fulfill their end of the contract.

Just an example of the complexity, I only have a summary of the ECS, no specific details, and it still covers 4 pages, 1 of text and 3 of drawings, and that is just a summary.

[tflash]

They have to allow LM to fulfill their end of the contract.

 

Right. This accident report already has the smell of LM lawyers all over.

 

 

Most of us will agree the report is clear:

• There was a bleed air leak
  
• The cause of the leak could not be established
  
• The oxygen was cut off
  
• The EOS wasn't activated by the pilot
  
• The highly skilled pilot didn't recover his aircraft timely from a dive, due to channelized attention and spatial disorientation
  

So, what we *know* and all parties agree on, is that a malfunction of the aircraft's systems is at the basis of the event, and that a highly qualified pilot didn't manage to take the right steps to recover the aircraft.

 

What if this happened in combat? Wouldn't we prefer that the pilot could channel his attention to the enemy instead of trying to solve aircraft system issues that require so much attention that even a skilled pilot doesn't manage to save his own life?

 

The report seems to imply that since the pilot was to blame, we could consider training pilots with waterboarding so that their attention doesn't get channeled when they are suffocating during combat.

Edited December 24, 2011 by tflash

[Vekkinho]

So pilot's wife and kids are to provide the funding to IRS?!

[hassata]

http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2011/12/23/f-22-mishap-blames-pilot-not-oxy-system/

 

I just threw up a little in my mouth.