Pilotasso's HOTAS WARTHOG review (yes, yet another one!!)

[Pilotasso]

HI all!

 

OK So I tried the Warthog this past week, and below I wrote the review for it.

 

BEWARE that Im extremely picky in what regards HOTAS setups, and my speech my appear less optimistic than others.

 

 

-Unpacking and HOTAS presentation:

 

The package is heavy, very heavy. But it was only when I removed the parts I realized just how heavy it really is. The stick handle alone must weight about a whole pound. I attached it to the base, itself also very heavy. The throttle is even heavier.

Make no mistake: this is one looker of a setup. It gives the owner pleasure just by looking at it. Its overall aesthetics is superb! So much so, it might serve a secondary purpose, stand there pretty just like my airplane model kits. At least for looks this HOTAS is a sure winner over all others.

Its metal, paint and shape is simply impeccable. It feels quite solid too once you lay your hands on it (with certain items exceptions as described below).

 

-Installation:

The manual has a plus side of being written on all major languages in Europe (including

Russian and Portuguese :) ). however the downside is that it doesnt really give that much information. No installation procedures, nothing. Its just a feature illustrations. Installation is easy though. Just install T.A.R.G.E.T. and then plug the 2 devices, each in its individual port. Thats it. From then on its all about programming.

 

-T.A.R.G.E.T.

I confess I didnt explore much but to do an experimental profile for F-15 yet. So far I find it quite stable and useful, surely 100 times better than Logitech profiler for the ill fated G940, or the buggy SAITEK profiler I had for the X52. You get easy axis programming, tuning up and many possibilities for scripting buttons and hats. You can setup axis bands with amazing easiness, much better than the somewhat unreliable band setting on the X52 profiler that rarely works as the user intends the first time out.

You can also launch the profile any time to test it out. It does have a few simple things missing though. there is no tray icon from where to launch your profiles from. Instead you can launch the game from TARGET automatically with its own profile. I wish I didnt have to open this application to call up for the simulation and its profile.

 

-Stick handling:

 

Well its made of metal, as such it might be somewhat tiresome to some after a while. (its somewhat uncomfortable with the cold of winter and doesnt fit in your hand like a plastic/rubber handle that other HOTAS have).

The return to center force is not too heavy. Certainly heavier than X52, CH, or even the G940 at full FFB force, but nowhere near the cougar or any of the previous F-4 Phantom replicas (of which I had plenty). Unlike many previous thrustmaster setups the centering force is constant no matter how far its deflected similarly like the vanilla X52...with this statement I actually bent the reality a bit for the sake of making it simple to explain. In reality it does become wobbly on the roll axis when fully defected backwards (or forward), i.e. when you pull the stick back, the roll tension almost feels loose to a point where you loose the sense what your doing in that axis causing some unwanted roll input.

On the other hand precision is impeccable in most of its envelope. This is the stick where I have found to be the easiest to aim the gun, EVER. I have introduced a dead zone of 3% at the center of both axis because I had slight parasite inputs when I left the stick rested. Its own weight and and gimbals appears to be less precise than the hall sensors. With the deadzone The stick actually gives input as soon as I move off from center as intended.

It has no center slop at all (though with wear over the years this could change), no axis transition, though it does give a bump when at the center.

 

The deflection angle is higher than the g940, but less than the X52, and much less than the CH fighterstick.

I had better effortless snap manoeuvring capability with the G940, but in everything else the WARTHOG kit blows the logitech crummy hardware right out of the water.

 

The stick handle is BIG. The fire button is somewhat hard for me to reach. Those of big hands should not have a problem. Unlike the CH, where you cant have big enough hand (right up to gorilla status), this warthog is friendlier with big hands.

Those of small pianist hands might have a problem though.

having said this the stick will easely fin in any desk thanks to its small footprint but large resting plate, it wont move and stay solid with your inputs.

 

-Throttle:

The throttle is MASSIVE. HUGE and heavy. Despite this, it WILL move when you need to pass the gated detents. The detents are actuated when you pull the handles upwards countering an opposing elastic band force. This is unfortunate. makes it almost obligatory to screw it to a solid home cockpit or gaming chair in order to use this feature. Also regretfully I find the detents quite obstructive, they are not very fluid and may require more than one attempt to get past them. I found a workaround though. I have setup the extremities deadzones to match the location of the 2 deadzonnes and manoeuvre the throttles in between them only, never past. The throttle angle of travel (its curved versus the linear pro CH throttle) to be quite extensive, so even when limited, you have plenty of space to work with. I actually feel more comfortable with limited range. My fingers will not be endangered of getting trapped at full front like when its unlimited. An added disadvantage is that, then you will never feel where the afterburner limit is, I am habituated with this because I used the CH setup for a long time too.

The elastic detent band can be seen when you remove the stripe to change the detents key. It looks like a ruber band inside a tubular cloth (for protection) I fear it might break eventually as these devices made of latex only last so long.

One note: the programmable LEDs are the 5 circular dots in front of the throttle handles. They are not easely seen unless you place the throttle on a side console in a home cockpit. They are right now useless as thrusmaster appears NOT to have this feature implemented in T.A.R.G.E.T yet.

 

-Ergonomics:

This is the less pleasing aspect of this hardware...

Thrustmaster really have outdone themselves in giving this hardware realistic feel. Unfortunately this also means a few things:

1-those of us just wanting to have a practical HOTAS will feel some of its feature to actually get in the way of gameplay, like the push down button resistance... its too heavy for some buttons. Specially for the missile button, plus its hard to reach for some hand sizes (like mine).

Using the S1 button causes torsion stress on the gimbals for being so hard to push in.

2-The throttle is much unergonomic in many ways. The switches on either side of the handles require quite some gymnastic to use.

3-I already mentioned these devices are heavy? I found it hard to remove them from the desk when I need the space to work. They are so heavy they require alot of care to move without breaking them or srape off the rubber feet.

4-The stick is all metal...no quite, the hats and buttons are all plastic. The push down thumb hats feel grainy, Im not concerned by their handling. But how long will it take to break them? 2 of the 3 way switches on the both sides of the throttle handles are so far away from an ergonomic reach that, actuating them might cause your hand to do so from an inappropriate angle pushing them down instead of pushing ALONG with them.

 

Another annoying "feature" is that for some motherboards like mine, the LEDs wont shut down when you power down the PC. I need no frigging Christmas tree this year!! :eek:

Its so bright in the dark I have to switch off my power extension. Unfortunately Im not too sure this is very healthy as the HOTAS wakes up on power up in a strange psychedelic way.

 

THE BATTLE OF THE HOTAS: WARTHOG VS X52, G940 and CH

 

handling: X52 is best, followed closely by the warthog. Next is the g940, that stays behind because of the center slop and grainy feel of the stick. I hate the Ch stick handling the most. Long throw and too light for may taste.

 

Ergonomics: X52 Wins light years ahead of all others. It has much less buttons but feels so much nicer than any other desk HOTAS. The WARTHOG comes far behind it, as explained I feel that its realist feel actually gets in the way. Most of us will use it on top of a desk. Only those using in on home cockpits with flight gloves on will be able to properly enjoy this feature.

Next is the G940. Force feedback need to be optimized for each game, meaning you probably never get rid of its disadvantages like I did(nt). following close by closely there is the CH, hurt by its stick size and weird throttle hat positions.

 

Programming: hard to make out a winner here, but CH manager and T.A.R.G.E.T. are truly programming powerhouses. They feel mostly bug free too. I rather prefer T.A.R.G.E.T. for its slightly better (and good looking) interface. Next Is SAITEK's a bit buggy but easy to use, and lastly at the depths of bug hell is the logitech pseudo-programing software. In my opinion almost useless and right down inflexible. you cant assign scripted commands to each of its 4 way hats for example. The recorded commands sometimes will not be read properly by games. That is perplexing. I had better experiences with hardware that had cost me 3 times less many many years before, like the MS sidewinder II or my earlier rather fragile Thrusmaster Afterburner II, despite its many hardware flaws had a simple and intuitive programming software.

 

BANG for the buck: The X52 wins hands down here. You get quite a nice hardware kit for so much less than the WARTHOG or the CH setup. Mind the CH setup can STILL be more expensive than the WARTHOG outside the US. I have bought my 3 pieces nearly 200€ each!

Again down in the gutter is the G940. For 300€ this is a monster of a price for a midget amount of features. C'mon what does it have? Dual throttle? no longer its an unique feature. Plus the cheap pots went bad on mine just after 3 months. FFSB? why have it if you have to wait for optimized games? reminds me of SSE CPU instructions, for which we had to wait years before it got any software optimized tittles. Whats left for the g940 is a bunch of rather ordinary set of features that everyone else can offer for far far less money.

 

Durability: The CH wins light years ahead of everyone else. Its well proven in the flight SIM community. Despite being made of plastic this stick will still work years down the road. Its hard to make out the next best. The Warthog is unproven and it does have its weak spots as explained above.

The X52 develops precision bugs over the years.

The G940 deserves the garbage bin after just a few months of use, specially the throttle. Its in so many technical hells that even the Hindus would have difficulty making enough of them for this hardware.

 

 

Ohter players: the COUGAR and the SAITEK X65F.

 

I have never played with the cougar except when in display at expos and stores, and never tested the X65. I have not much to say about them except that the cougar is somewhat infamous in the community for its early batches flaws. The redesign in later batches has few changes, so dont expect radical changes in their handling except when you MOD it. I would very much own a force sensing MOD with hall sensors on the throttle. Unfortunately that would be way above my budget. the warthog was alot. A MODed cougar would be too much.

 

The X65 is a real dark horse here. like I said never tried it, but I suspect that it may trade blows with the Warthog. Its main strength may be also its main weakness. The force sensing stick. Some dislike it. Some of the disadvantages pointed out in web critics are also reflected on the Warthog, in what regards the ergonomics and handling. For example they say because the stick will not move, may cause undesired inputs. I have the same in warthog as described above, the sticks deflection is not matched with increased return to center force. So considering the SAITEK offer to be 100€ cheaper and no less features, this is one serious contender NOT to be dismissed.

 

But while the WARTHOG gets in the way of the player by its roughness for some titltes ouside the JET study SIM genre, the X65F, if the force sensing doesnt upset you, might even be a better choice for all tittles.

 

The HOTAS is a niche universe, and the WARTHOG is in a niche within the niche! So I would say the difference between the the X65 and WARTHOG is that while the WARTHOG is for the realism purists, the X65F is just a more complex HOTAS than the others, and may infact be better positioned for the general public. Its price is also considerably lower, 100€ less, and its has rotaries, something missing in the WARTHOG, that many players value so much (specially WWII types) and as for buttons and hats there isnt much difference between the 2.

 

-Conclusion and final thoughts:

 

The choice all depends on on you budget and intended use.

 

For generalist gamers I have to advise the X52. It not only is great value for money, but you can use it for flight and Space SIM alike (or even cars or others).

 

For those wanting alot of buttons and wish something more there are 3 choices:

 

The X65F. Should be great for many types of genres, not just jet fighters study SIMs.

The CH, if you like light sticks. It has the added bonus of being extremely durable.

And the HOTAS WARTHOG. I have to recommend this one for purists only. This HOTAS deserves a home cockpit, even flight gloves if you have them. Your bare hands might feel sore after a while.

 

If your looking for generalist HOTAS designed for gaming, not cockpits you might want to stay away, be warned. This might not be what you think it is.

 

Im satisfied with it, but I also wonder what would the X65F feel like, and I do have fast action paced space SIM's for which this HOTAS WARTHOG might get somewhat in the way...

 

PROS:

Simply drop dead gorgeous, worthy of a dedicated display stand. Have no better words for it.

Above average stick handling (though not perfect)

Realism for those who put it as a priority.

Buttload of buttons.

very good programmability.

 

CONS:

Price!! It has the potential to explodicate your wallet matched only by its potential to kill other players...

Might get in the way of other types of gaming.

Certain ergonomic features.

hard to get the space to place it, beware.

At night its like trying to sleep in a disco (lights).

Edited December 1, 2010 by Pilotasso

[104th_Crunch]

Nice review Pilot, thanks

[Frazer]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=62564

[Pilotasso]

No complaints about friction here. My gripes lie elsewhere, as stated on my review. :)

[Yskonyn]

Fair review. Thanks for writing it up.

[leafer]

Thanks for the honest review. You obviously have no fanboi complex and didn't hold anything back. :D However, since I have not seen any embedded reviewer out there mention this important fact, I think you should add that the throttle handles and levers are made of plastic.

 

There are few things concerning the throttle I didn't understand. The first is your work-around the mechanical detents and the second is the trapped finger...? Are you saying that when moved to max burner, your fingers are crushed between the handles and the base?

Edited December 1, 2010 by leafer

[Slammin]

The throttle handles actually are covered with what seems like brushed aluminum. Even if the handles were completely plastic though, I don't see that as a minus because the parts that are plastic feel sturdy enough. I think the throttle is pretty awesome.

[Pilotasso]

Thanks for the honest review. You obviously have no fanboi complex and didn't hold anything back. :D However, since I have not seen any embedded reviewer out there mention this important fact, I think you should add that the throttle handles and levers are made of plastic.

 

There are few things concerning the throttle I didn't understand. The first is your work-around the mechanical detents and the second is the trapped finger...? Are you saying that when moved to max burner, your fingers are crushed between the handles and the base?

 

My desk has a keyboard drawer that is lower than the table surface and slides in. The throttles would move so far forward that my finger tips would get trapped.

 

Also in order to avoid lifting the throttle while pushing up the gated detent I just placed deadzones in the entire range beyond the detents. Im left with the middle, and let me tell you Im comfortable with that as I still have plenty of room to move them.

[leafer]

My desk has a keyboard drawer that is lower than the table surface and slides in. The throttles would move so far forward that my finger tips would get trapped.

 

Also in order to avoid lifting the throttle while pushing up the gated detent I just placed deadzones in the entire range beyond the detents. Im left with the middle, and let me tell you Im comfortable with that as I still have plenty of room to move them.

 

Got it. Thanks.

 

The throttle handles actually are covered with what seems like brushed aluminum. Even if the handles were completely plastic though, I don't see that as a minus because the parts that are plastic feel sturdy enough. I think the throttle is pretty awesome.

 

No, it's not a minus and and it's not even important provided the plastic is of high grade like the stuff CH uses. It's just that I feel TM and all the other reviewers should have mentioned that fact since everyone would and have assumed they are both made from alloy.

 

I'm aware that all of my griping since it was released must have seemed like I'm on a bashing spree. That's not it and I'd love to buy the WH once the price has come down.

[Invisibull]

My desk has a keyboard drawer that is lower than the table surface and slides in. The throttles would move so far forward that my finger tips would get trapped.

 

I also place my HOTAS (x52pro) on the slide out keyboard platform and to make room for the throttle in the full position i simply cut a 2.5" deep x 12" long slat out of the desktop edge with a jigsaw. Problem solved. (My gf tells me that it was at this point she started worrying about me.)

[Frazer]

My gf tells me that it was at this point she started worrying about me.

 

Owell, you can always get a new one :megalol:

[LawnDart]

[airea]

What about Microsoft Sidewinder FF2 vs TM Warthog?

 

:)

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know, they are apples and oranges but be glad to hear some opinions... I am happy with my Sidewinder and its forcefeedback. Does it worth changing to expensive Warthog?