JDAM toss

[Kula66]

I know this dependant on altitude and speed, but what is the max distance people are able to 'throw' a JDAM? Which is better max speed on the deck or from high up? If on the deck, is about 40degs the best point to release?

 

I'm thinking in the context of knocking out an SA15 from as far away as possible ... the only other way so far is to get it to fire at my wingman and then Mav the sucker! Those things are lethal - they don't seem to fire until 5.5 miles, but when they do ... they seem to rarely miss despite jamming, jinking, beaming, chaff etc.

 

PS> I did find a thread discussing this earlier, but wonder what people were getting in practice.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Kula66

[159th_Viper]

I'm thinking in the context of knocking out an SA15 from as far away as possible....

 

If you are conducting SEAD Ops, another approach would be altitude (Angels 22+). Get above his WEZ and drop a JDAM - A10 is probably too slow to effectively 'Toss' munitions.

[Headspace]

A10 is probably too slow to effectively 'Toss' munitions.

I think it's too slow also, unless you want to get really close, which defeats the purpose. The kind of toss bombing the OP is describing is generally done in supersonic aircraft with the ability to leave quickly under afterburner after release.

[Kula66]

If you are conducting SEAD Ops, another approach would be altitude (Angels 22+). Get above his WEZ and drop a JDAM - A10 is probably too slow to effectively 'Toss' munitions.

 

Thanks Viper, thats what I'm finding ... I've used the altitude approach on Tunguskas, but SA15s seem significantly more lethal - as you'd expect. Harriers regularly practiced toss attacks, but while they didn't have AB, they are a couple of hundred kts quicker.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Kula66

[Weaponz248]

JDAMs aren't meant to be tossed. They are meant to be released and then they guide themselves to the TGT. If your doing SEAD ops I would say bring more MAVs. Just remember the higher you are the farther your release should be.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Weaponz248

[Kula66]

JDAMs are meant to be tossed. They are meant to be released and then they guide themselves to the TGT. If your doing SEAD ops I would say bring more MAVs. Just remember the higher you are the farther your release should be.

 

I would have thought they are ideal for tossing ... they don't need external terminal guidance, so you can turn away immediately and not worry about painting the target. All that tossing a bomb gives you is stand-off range for release so you don't have to over-fly the target.

[Weaponz248]

JDAM are meant to be dropped from a high altitude. You dont even have to be over the TGT just somewhere close. The higher you are the more time it has to steer.

[Kaiza]

I have has a little bit of success doing this. From memory I was using a release angle of about 45-50 nu. The only real application I found is using terrain as masking and tossing over it. I was not getting any great distance, the target had to be very close to the hill I was using as cover. Would love to try it with Gbu 12s buddy lasing.

[raynor]

The last mission I took part in of someone elses design had a very saturated AA environment with no SEAD which forced at least me to stay low. Using a GBU-38 I managed to come in on the deck and do a last minute pop up onto a convoy and lobbed my bomb approx. 1.3nm from ~4,000 ft AGL.

 

After release the bomb climbed from 4,350 ft to a peak of 5,130 ft then descended to hit the target. That is the best performance I've gotten out of a JDAM so far and I was already 320 knots before a 45 degree climb to release.

[Kula66]

After release the bomb climbed from 4,350 ft to a peak of 5,130 ft then descended to hit the target. That is the best performance I've gotten out of a JDAM so far and I was already 320 knots before a 45 degree climb to release.

 

Thanks raynor,

So even with a bit more speed from a dive (350), I'm never going to get 6 miles!

[EtherealN]

With a hog it is indeed unlikely.

 

If you have altitude as a budget you should be able to engage him with mavs though at that distance.

[Chill31]

At 400+ kts, a 30 deg NU toss will only get you about 1.5 extra miles on your standoff. Compared to climbing which can give you more than double, you should consider altitude the greatest benefit for stand off attacks with JDAM

[StrongHarm]

The A-10 isn't really suited for SEAD operations, though in Desert Storm they were used based on the sheer number of radar sites that needed destroyed. They called it "here, kitty kitty". An aircraft would bait the radar at max launch envelop, then the A-10 would pop up from another direction and hit it with a Mav. These days they use the AGM-154 from a bomber, F15, or an F35. It has a standoff range of more than 15nm. Before advanced standoff weapons and HARMS, they used F4s that came in on the deck at high speed and dropped retarded clusters.

 

I've had success coming in on the deck in the A-10. I first check the area for AAA guns (critical) and if none are backing up the SAM site and the terrain allows for it, I go in right on the deck and take the site out with a gun pass. If the terrain doesn't allow or there are guns around, I'll do a mav popup then get back behind the terrain.

 

I'm going to try some high altitude solutions as well now after reading this post. Many thanks.

[Succellus]

I love bomb tossing....And to think during WW2 and latter they were bomb lobbing without any guiddance and getting hits.

But there where no SAMS then.

Fly "OLD" is quite refreshing sometimes.

 

This sim seem truly awesome.

[Skwurl]

JDAMs aren't meant to be tossed. They are meant to be released and then they guide themselves to the TGT. If your doing SEAD ops I would say bring more MAVs. Just remember the higher you are the farther your release should be.

 

Um, no.

 

JDAM's work exceptionally well at being tossed. In 2006, an F-22 threw a 2,000 pound JDAM 24 miles. The whole point of tossing bombs is to out-range your target - i.e, air defence.

 

Yes, you can loiter and drop JDAM's directly near or above the target (which admittedly is their primary use in Iraq & Afghanistan), but these suckers can be tossed like crazy if they need to be (and if the aircraft is fast enough, of course).

[Frederf]

JDAMs do have dedicated programming to not hamper loft deliveries. They detect such situations and don't try to "cut the corner." The Paveway III has similar programming which was one of the improvements over the Paveway II which dumbly would cut a loft short.

[Weaponz248]

Um, no.

 

JDAM's work exceptionally well at being tossed. In 2006, an F-22 threw a 2,000 pound JDAM 24 miles. The whole point of tossing bombs is to out-range your target - i.e, air defence.

 

Yes, you can loiter and drop JDAM's directly near or above the target (which admittedly is their primary use in Iraq & Afghanistan), but these suckers can be tossed like crazy if they need to be (and if the aircraft is fast enough, of course).

 

 

Um ok. I said werent meant to be not couldn't be. Also the question was asked about the A-10 not the F-22. I understand the point of a bomb toss. but thats also why you have SEAD packages with agm-88s. An A-10 normally only toss BDU-33s. Other than that straight and lvl. JDAMs are made to be dropped from a high lvl flight. Now granted they can do all that tossing stuff but come on do you really see an A-10 trying this?

[Kula66]

Um ok. I said werent meant to be not couldn't be. Also the question was asked about the A-10 not the F-22. I understand the point of a bomb toss. but thats also why you have SEAD packages with agm-88s. An A-10 normally only toss BDU-33s. Other than that straight and lvl. JDAMs are made to be dropped from a high lvl flight. Now granted they can do all that tossing stuff but come on do you really see an A-10 trying this?

 

Agreed the A-10 is not ideal for SEAD (by a long way), but for now it is all we have! When ED do the F-18/F-16 or F-22, I''ll switch to toss bombing and SEAD from those :)

[Weaponz248]

Agreed the A-10 is not ideal for SEAD (by a long way), but for now it is all we have! When ED do the F-18/F-16 or F-22, I''ll switch to toss bombing and SEAD from those :)

 

 

Right on!! I would love to see an F-18 in DCS!

[StrongHarm]

I would love to see the F-18 as well. I think the F-22 would be more lucrative for ED, and I'd like to see it even more than the F-18. I just wonder if they'd be able to gather enough data for a realistic sim due to security concerns. I guess that's a different thread though! :)