Easier method to air refuel and general questions on Air to Air refuelling

[andysim]

I find it better to Disconnect before my tanks are full then back off the tanker before canceling the Refueling from the radio options, The tanker can then feel free to pull 4G 60degree turns if it wants hehe.

 

 

Imagine if passenger jets turned as fast as the tanker in DCS. The poor passengers would be exchanging meals (ie food flying around the cabin)every time they passed a Waypoint :)

 

 

On the plus side the sales of sickbags would go though to roof!!

[GGTharos]

Forget the passengers: Think about the rain of engine pods!

[SonofEil]

Forget the passengers: Think about the rain of engine pods!

 

Donnie Darko style!

[StrongHarm]

All very good ideas Ptroinks. +1

 

Didn't think of that! I'll try using a bit of speed brakes as well.

 

The initial approach to the tanker isn't a problem for me. It's the part after the connection is made that needs more training. Actually, I've gotten pretty good at recovering after a disconnect or if the boom operator decides to sabotage my connection attempt and hits me with the boom. I've noticed a couple of aspects of aerial refueling that I should train on:

 

-formation flying with the tanker: I'm going to try flying in formation with it withouth asking for fuel, so the boom won't be in my way. This way, I might learn how to maintain my position relative to the tanker better. It would also teach me to watch the tanker and not the boom. If I can do this, then I might be able to ignore the boom when I'm actually trying to refuel.

-Speed changes: Learning to not observe speed changes by the airspeed indicator, but by the relative speed to the tanker (visually).

-Throttle: Getting to know my throttle: Learning to know how much I need to move my throttle to increase/decrease airspeed by 1/10th of a knot. This would have to be measured visually, though.

[Ptroinks]

Is there a way to make tanker do a constant turn? I'd like to increase difficulty :P

 

You're kidding, right?

[Ptroinks]

I did it :joystick: !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!! I did it !!!!

 

 

YEEEEAAHHH!!!!

I actually can't believe I managed to refuel! It was agony, and the drunken boom operator tried his best to sabotage my attempts (there were some disconnects), but I did it!!! Damn, I'm proud :)! In all my flightsimming years, I have always considered refueling to be the mark of a good pilot, and now I can breathe easy!

 

I hope someone can take a look at the track file. I know the boom operator and tanker AI still needs a lot of work, but still, some of the disconnects I had, were strange. Were they all just me, or can I blame all of them on the AI?

 

...and yes, I'm so proud I want everyone to look at my very FIRST refueling :D...

refueling.trk

[Fish]

13) If you need to reconnect to boom then PRESS the Nosewheel Steering button (this resets the refuel process).

 

This one will help me a lot, and perhaps i will stop breaking KC's. Really thought the boom operators were 'sleepy', could never 're-connect' after breaking contact.

:megalol:

 

Edit

Yes that did the trick. Took a few reconnects, but picked up 3400 in a few mins!

Edited April 8, 2011 by Fish

[Itkovian]

I think the most important part is to rely on the throttle to keep the boom "in the green", and just using the stick to keep the tanker "still" in your view.

 

I actually managed to refuel in one try last night, no disconnect. :)

 

Another hint is to try and do a refueling daily. Keeps you in practice. :)

 

Itkovian

[Ptroinks]

I would advise anyone who's still struggling with their refuelings to just switch the HUD off! Yes, off! That was the ONE thing that did it for me. Well, not switching it off, but keeping my eyes on the tanker and the boom, and not watching my airspeed and horizon on the HUD. It's surprising how fast you learn how to "feel" where you are in relation to the tanker once you get your eyes outside of the cockpit! And when you look at the boom, look at the green part (might seem obvious, but my eyes had a tendency to want to look at the end of the boom where it connects to the A-10. Looking at the colored part lets you know if you need to accelerate/decelerate, and you have a perfect view of the rest of the tanker so you can see if you're drifting left/right. Lots of people have said it before me, and I'll say it again: TRIM! And do it before you're connecting to the tanker!

[SimFreak]

You're kidding, right?

 

Not at all.

 

During mission design, I give tanker circle orbit (advanced waypoint actions - perform task - orbit - circle) which he follows.

 

When I contact him and say 'pre-contact', tanker rolls out of the turn and flies straight.

Edited April 9, 2011 by SimFreak

[andysim]

seems to be that its the only way to have the tanker going straight line or at a 60degree bank and nowhere in between :smilewink:

 

Btw if you notice the tanker flying too near enemy areas while you are refueling just stop cancel the refuel and let the tanker turn back and reconnect.

 

In FA4AF the tanker would follow a perfect gentle turn of 3 or 4 degrees and you could carry one taking fuel. Would be nice if the DCS tanker could somehow do this but I understand there are limitations.

[Ptroinks]

Not at all.

 

During mission design, I give tanker circle orbit (advanced waypoint actions - perform task - orbit - circle) which he follows.

 

When I contact him and say 'pre-contact', tanker rolls out of the turn and flies straight.

 

 

Wow! I still have a long way to go before I can refuel without disconnects, but being able to follow a tanker in a turn while connected seems extremely difficult! At least the turns the tanker makes in DCS. As was mentioned above, the Falcon 4 tanker made a very gentle turn, so that would be easier.

[Exigo]

I tried searching for this but couldn't find anything about it. So just got to ask then i guess :)

 

I downloaded a training mission for Air to Air refuel and ILS landing in IMC conditions and been flying it for the last 2 weeks once a day more or less to get good at it and as the track included will show im getting there.

 

My problem is that when the tanks are full, im not getting the "Transfer completed" line all the boom operator sais is "disconnect" and "return pre-contact". The first time i got this last night i thought that i did actually "screwed" up and forced the disconnect but looking at the track i dont think i did especially since i reconnected and i took on about 100lbs of fuel and he sais "disconnect" again but the hose remains connected with my plane. If you look at my track you will understand what im talking about if my description above is unclear.

 

Is there a known "bug" with the air refuel system because i remember getting the transfer complete line in the Dragons Weapons Training missions but that was in MP

 

Ex

A2A Refuel and IMC landing.trk

[xjiks]

Not at all.

 

During mission design, I give tanker circle orbit (advanced waypoint actions - perform task - orbit - circle) which he follows.

 

When I contact him and say 'pre-contact', tanker rolls out of the turn and flies straight.

 

Which values should I set in the editor for altitude and speed if I want to make a "realistic" tanker situation ?

[Mud]

From the research I've done it's between 15k and 20k feet. The speed I'm not certain about, but I use 280 KTAS myself.

[Eddie]

Which values should I set in the editor for altitude and speed if I want to make a "realistic" tanker situation ?

 

From the research I've done it's between 15k and 20k feet. The speed I'm not certain about, but I use 280 KTAS myself.

 

As above really, FL150-250 is ok for the Hog but obviously take payload into account. If you're loaded up with 6 Mavericks and 12 Mk-82s 25,000ft would be next to impossible (15,000ft wouldn't exactly be easy either).

 

As for speed, remember that the speeds in the mission editor are all GROUND SPEED and not TAS/IAS, so the higher the altitude you set the tanker (or any other AI aircraft) the faster you'll need to set the GS to get a decent IAS in the sim.

[GGTharos]

Aim for about 220 IAS.

 

From the research I've done it's between 15k and 20k feet. The speed I'm not certain about, but I use 280 KTAS myself.

[xjiks]

Thank you all three for the information. :thumbup:

[Guest Fury_007]

Had to post now that I can officially consider myself apart of the refueling club. It took me over 6 connects and disconnects to get to full, but I did it. The longest I was able to stay connected was 41 seconds and the shortest was 2 seconds.

 

I would like to be able to tell everybody what the secret to my success was, but I think it was a little bit of all the advice I got here.

 

 

First I set up a nice curve and deadzone on my pitch & roll.

 

Second, I locked my trackir pointing slightly up and zoomed out a bit to get a better overall picture

 

C, I tried to anticipate what corrections I was going to need . If I saw the plane drifting left, it was time to turn left, but not too much

 

Fourth, LOOK AT THE AIRPLANE! I only glanced at the boom rod to see the color. Mostly I just tried to listen to the engines and look at the airplane to judge whether I needed to speed up or slow down

 

Fifth, If I noticed I was going to need to speed up, I hammered the throttle to almost 100% and quickly brought it back down to where it needed to be. That saved me on a couple disconnects.

 

F, Approach the tanker slow and trim ahead of time for the tanker speed, then NO MORE RETRIMMING, although I couldn't get the pitch trim perfect, I got it close enough.

 

 

Thank you everybody for the good advice

[Snoopy]

I posted this someplace before but can't find it. The C-1 states that with KC-135 the airspeed is 220 KCAS at a base planned altitude of 15,000 ft. It also states that the tankers gross weight is the primary consideration when determining the refueling airspeed and altitude.

[Aginor]

I set the tanker at 10,000 ft and 250 airspeed, so the IAS is 220, you can do that even when you are heavy loaded.

 

I use the same technique as Fury wrote. Especially remember the tip: Don't chase the boom, look at the tanker. The only interesting thing on the boom is the color and you can see that without looking at it directly.

 

Although I admit that I lose connection every time the tanker turns. It just happens too suddenly.

 

EDIT:

One of the most common reasons for disconnecting too early is flying too far behind the tanker and too high. I had to learn to aim for a steeper angle of the boom, then it went more smoothly.

[Mud]

I posted this someplace before but can't find it.

 

You're getting old, Paul :D

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1221726&postcount=23

[Speed]

As above really, FL150-250 is ok for the Hog but obviously take payload into account. If you're loaded up with 6 Mavericks and 12 Mk-82s 25,000ft would be next to impossible (15,000ft wouldn't exactly be easy either).

 

I can easily get to 23k feet in 75nm of flying loaded with 6Mavericks 4CBU-97, 6GBU-12s, TGP and ECM, so I must disagree about next to impossible to take a load like that even higher. You just can't try to climb like your an F-16, which is what most people try to do. Then the fall out of the sky. There's a little thing called drag, and it increases at higher angles of attack. So keep the speed above 165 knots in your climb and your fine. Hell, while cheating, I got off the ground with 48 Mk-82s, TGP, ECM and 4 AIM-120s, so yea... this baby can lift more to higher altitudes than most people ever give it credit for.

[Eddie]

Indeed Speed, however merely climbing to said altitude isn't enough. You also need to have the necessary speed to not only maintain position on the tanker, but also catch it in the first place.

 

While all of this is technically possible with silly loadouts, it takes an unacceptable length of time.