Saitek X65F

[Spartan1-1]

Ok... There's been quite a few reviews out about this. Ive had mine for a week. Just wanted to report in... I love it.

 

DCSWH, DCSBS, LOFC2, XPlane9, FSX

 

I love this HOTAS. Really wanted a TMWH, but couldnt justify the cost right now. Found a "used one day for testing" X65F on ebay and got it for 200 bucks. This stick is simply awesome. The centering issue exists, but it is absolutely unoticable. The Throttle comes a little stiff, but is perfect after a week of decent use. Physical quality, outstanding. Software is the same as X52 for key programming so take it or leave it, but the force sensing programming is great. Ergonomics seem strange at first but become second nature in no time at all. Ive had the stock X52 for about 2 and a half years with no issues other than the usual rotary jitters. This is one hell of an upgrade. I also have the Pro Flight Yoke, Pedals, and Throttle Quadrant. Previous hardware includes the TM HOTAS WCS MkII (?, its been awhile) and TM F-22. I bring this up just so you know what im comparing this to.

 

The only serious dissapointment so far is Saiteks horrible support. There forum has been locked out for new members for over a month and a half. I see no X65F specific threads in there either. I find this very strange.

 

Anyway, Im not trying to start another HOTAS competition thread. Just wanted to report in for those in the market. I love this HOTAS and im very pleased with its performance. It does seem like force sensing is a leap of faith for some. If anyone has any specific questions just shoot me a PM or reply.

 

Happy Hunting

[walker450]

Thanks for the review!

 

Could you elaborate on the Throttle?? The look of the throttle alone make me want to buy the X-65... it just looks so cool and ergonomically correct. Does it feel this way to you now? Do the buttons and hats on the throttle seem to be in the correct place? Are there enough of them?

 

My main gripe about my X-52 is the throttle doesn't have nearly enough buttons and hats!!!

[WynnTTr]

It's got enough buttons - http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x65f.html

 

It's a nice HOTAS but I just never got used to the force sensing technology and the immovable stick. If they just let it move slightly like in the real F16 it'd make a huge difference tactilely.

 

It's like sex for me - I need to feel some movement rather than something that doesn't budge when I'm playing with it.

[Groove]

The problem with the throttle is that i tend to push the buttons which are "in front" of the throttel unintentionally.

[aelfewulf]

I'm also a happy owner of the X65.

Throttle ergonomics is great. Only gripe is the stick hats are too loose with very little tactile feel.

Saitek support is non-existent.

[Spartan1-1]

Yup. Throttle ergonomics took a few days to get used to. The HATs in the front dont allow a full "beer can grip" on the throttle. I now rest my wrist on the base and wrap my middle finger around the front of the throttle. This has forced me to stop hamfisting the control. I still have all the throttle/collective authority I need as I fly DCS BS regularly. I love having instant access to all of the controls on it. A-10C is pretty intuitive to programming. But it takes some time to wrap your head around all of the possibilities in other sims. HATs and buttons feel great but I agree they are easily manipulated and soooo many.

[Bulletstop]

Groove, I had that same issue so now while adjusting the throttle I tend to slide the throttle using my fingers resting along the top and not having the palm resting near the top, seems to help as I do not hit buttons any more.Was quiet annoying at times.

The stick and throttle has a lot of axis and buttons, so far I have not had to use the software to program a profile.

The bad thing and it really isn't an issue is that when the throttle is locked I have a fair bit of play between the left and right quadrants. Again does not effect anything, just feels wierd.

I do love my stick and can honestly say it has been the best one I owned to date.

 

 

Bullet

[Spartan1-1]

Yea I've got a little play as well. IRL there is no throttle latch so It doesn't bother me.

[walker450]

Still enjoying the X-65F??

 

I am really debating buying one myself....

[Cyb0rg]

I am thinking buy this too, but i need to know if we can fly the kamov using the z axis, like i use to do with the x52. Really don't like rudder pedals, also out of my budget.

[walker450]

I'm not sure how the Z axis would feel with the KA-50... I'll let ya know next week :) I went ahead and ordered it!

[BoneDust]

The throttle is way too stiff, but in general a nice stick. Saitek's support is crap.

[Pyroflash]

Just got mine yesterday, awesome stick, very solid design and very well packaged.

 

Saitek's engineers and support personnel must live on two completely different continents.

 

As far as being able to feel the buttons and switches you press, I have had no problem, and the throttle control feels like it does on a real airplane, requires very little effort to move, but doesn't move too quickly either(very similar to my experiences with real aircraft throttles). Now granted, you can still snap it back and forth if you need to, but the general movement is a lot smoother than that of the X-52.

 

The only real complaints I have about this product are its slight centering issues(very, very slight; almost unnoticeable). The E and F buttons on the throttle(same places as E and info on the X-52) require a little too much force to push for me in combat(might be a good thing, as my profile has these set to Eject and Weapons release). And that the middle hat on the back of the throttle(I use this to change autopilot modes) is not very ergonomic at all, and it requires a lot of patience to figure out in which direction you are moving the hat as it has no indentation whatsoever, and is for all intents and purposes an upside down version of the POV hat on the stick.

 

However, it flies and reacts beautifully, it is now think-fly, and not think-move-fly. The strain gauges in the stick are so sensitive that in order to move the aircraft, all you have to do is lightly touch(not push mind you, I said touch) the stick with your finger. If this is too sensitive, you can always customize your force settings to something more manageable. Or you could make it so a professional wrestler would have a hard time getting the aircraft to move. The accuracy and precision of this stick are second to none. No dead zones, no skips, hops, or jumps. Just flying where you want to go when you want to do it.

 

Edit: Since I actually took my time reviewing this product, I might as well rate it too.

 

I give this awesome piece of hardware a 9.5 out of 10.

the .5 I didn't give it is because of the awful customer support(you'd think for $400 you would be getting something besides the stick, but no), and the equally as bad profiling software(I mean first it won't recognize my scroll wheel for my radar azimuth, and then I can't slew my TGP with the mouse hat???).

Edited February 13, 2011 by Pyroflash

[Le0kong]

Good to hear you liked it. Make sure to attach the stick to something rock solid, it is not that it is bad when you use it on top of a table but it becomes something else when you can crank the force settings to high and apply lots of force with no fear of it moving.

 

 

About using the mouse mini-stick for the TGP you can try this workaround (shameless plug :D). Although i recommend waiting for the next A-10 beta because on the current build the TGP slew is getting stuck when used as a analog axis. For now i'm using the midle hat on the back of the throttle for slew and the mini-stick as the MIC hat.

[Pyroflash]

Thanks for the infos, I will have to try that workaround when I reinstall A-10C after Beta 6 hits my comp.

[BoneDust]

Any A10 profiles kicking around for the X65F?

[aelfewulf]

 

However, it flies and reacts beautifully, it is now think-fly, and not think-move-fly.

 

Exactly!

Finger muscle twitching is all that is needed to make tiny flight corrections.

[Le0kong]

Any A10 profiles kicking around for the X65F?

 

Here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=63912

 

And some others scattered in other topics.

[walker450]

I just got my X-65F setup (mounted to my pit) and have flown about 5 minutes in Blackshark.... And it's absolutely amazing!!!!!!

 

I'll post more later...

[walker450]

I am still really enjoying the X65. It is taking a little while to get used to the throttle ergonomics though. I can't rest my hand on it and use the front hats and the side hats at the same time.... It's kind of one or the other.

 

As for the stick, its amazing. It is basically everything I would want in one... the force sensing is great and I don't see myself dragging out the X52 for any reason in the future. Being able to change modes on the fly is probably the best thing they incorporated into it.

 

As for the twist rudder: The first few days I didn't map it in Blackshark, and just used my pedals. I recently started using it and so far I am undecided on it. The trick for me was to bring the sensitivity down on it quite a bit from factory settings. I think they set it intentionally high so you wouldn't be putting rudder inputs in when you didn't want to. However, in the Blackshark, you are constantly using the pedals... so I set mine quite sensitive.

 

Something else to note: You may see people do tests where they wiggle the stick back and forth and side to side and comment on the "bleeding" between all axis. My findings have been that this is not an issue when actually flying. If you see the aircraft behaving in a way that is undesirable, you simply correct it, you don't think about which way you are moving your hand or if you are twisting it or not. This is hard to explain, but it just seems that you have to "think" about it and it just happens.

 

I'll post again once I use it more.

[Stretch]

Blargh, mine broke. Rotary 1 ("antenna elevation" in the F-16) is having axis issues. Namely, when I rotate the knob down (towards me) even a little bit, the axis value marches down to 0. It behaves normally when I rotate the knob back up (away from me) past the detent. This makes 1/2 of the axis unusable.

 

Anyone else get this?

[walker450]

Is your rotary 1 still bad Stretch?

 

I used mine a lot this weekend at the LAN meet and I must say I am liking it more and more. I couldn't imagine NOT having all of those HATs available now! They are great!

 

I really enjoyed letting other people fly with it and watch thier reactions.

[Stretch]

Still broken. This may come as a huge shocker but I can't seem to get anyone at MadCatz/Saitek to even respond to my emails, much less help me fix it. I think I'm stuck.

 

I'd say "f@$% it" and buy a HOTAS Warthog but I used to own a Cougar and it had its share of problems too. I think that Saitek and Thrustmaster both produce excellent sticks but have terrible customer support.

[bugmaster]

Getting mine delivered in 12-18 hours from now. Will come back and give an update of my initial experience (I'm new to flight stick arena other than my MS sidewinder) that I used like 3 times back in late early 2000's or so.

 

Hope mine is OK, or seems I am fubar if I need support from what I am reading here. kinda upset as I paid for this for some type of support, and I read a lot on how Saitek stands behind their stuff... Now you guys got me worried :/

 

Just tried to make a saitek forum account and they have it deactivated altogether, looks like they are going broke?

[DayGlow]

Quick question for x-65 users, the 2 way 'k' switch on the throttle, is it a spring loaded switch or just sits in one of two positions?