military flight rules

[leafer]

I'm interested in learning real military flight rules and regulations.

 

What is the normal cruise speed and altitude for the A-10s. What's the procedure, if any, in climbing. I mean do they just take off, turn to proper heading then climb to alt?

 

Basically, when I take to the virtual air I do as please and would like to start learning real world procedures.

[Spartan]

+1 to the topic, even if i were not to implement all of them into the virtual world i reckon it would be a good practice every now and then.

[TRoe13]

+1 I'd also be interested in learning this.

[menendezdiego]

I'd assume climb at Vx/Vy, whichever is needed, using an instrument departure most likley, unless working in say a restricted area/moa like the areas around nellis. TACAN/INS navigation to waypoints, and boom!

[Check6]

SIDS and STARS are followed and the climb rates are up to the crews, but if they are less than AIM standard ATC must be told. Once the crews reach the MOA or Range thay are working, they are "Cleared Tactical" and work the mission via the assistance of other Assets (AWACS, JSTARS, GCI etc)

The speed rules that apply to civilian aircraft don't really apply to fighters as there is a caveat in the AIM and the ATC regs that states crews may flight higher speeds if needed for mission accomplishment to include training.

[tweet]

leafer there's no one answer to your question. Every airfield will have its own procedures. The departure and arrival procedures will specify a track, altitude restrictions, and, maybe, airspeed requirements. The track can be defined by TACAN or INS between waypoints with altitude limits at various waypoints. There may be a visual ground track in lieu of an instrument procedure. The visual departure and arrival is more expeditious and permits more aircraft to fit into the air space. It also has the benefit of denying an enemy navigation aids like TACAN to attack your base. In a combat zone they would be turned off if there was a threat and you would have to fly by reference to the ground or INS.

 

Arrival is much the same. There is usually an instrument arrival to an instrument approach or a "gate" where you can join the visual traffic pattern. The visual pattern is defined locally by a track, altitudes, and required airspeeds. The overhead pattern is one you should learn. I won't go into it now since it is more complex than I have time to explain. A copy of the A-10 Dash 1 can give you a hint about what it is if not a good idea of how to actually fly it. There are several guys around who can clue you in if you really are interested.

 

The Dash 1 has some other good information. For instance:

 

• Standard climb speed is 200 KIAS minus 1 knot per 1000' above sea level (MSL)
  
• Single engine best climb speed is 170 KIAS minus 1 knot per 1000' above sea level (MSL) clean and varies with gear down or flaps down by minus 10 knots for each
  
• Cruise speeds and altitudes are dependent on a number of variables. There are charts to pick an optimum altitude and airspeed/mach based on gross weight, drag index, and atmospheric conditions of temperature and wind. For the kind of flying done in the sim 200-300 KIAS is fine as there is seldom any reason to be precise. I'd suggest you pick something, say 250 KIAS, and learn to maintain, as well as a specific altitude, it at all times you're not blowing up stuff or getting shot at. Max range cruise is ~15.6 units of AOA IRL but I don't know how close it is in the sim. There's something to play with...
  
• Takeoff and landing speeds are dependent on temperature, pressure altitude, gross weight, and drag index. Generally, rotating to takeoff pitch attitude at 120 KIAS and holding it until you fly off the ground works quite well. Similarly, maintaining 150 KIAS until you extend the gear and flaps works fine. Approach speed with full flaps can vary from 110 to 160 KIAS depending on weight. Flying the AOA indexer is the best technique. Note the airspeed where you get the green donut and keeping that speed works fine.
  

There's a start for you. The best I can tell you is to set your own parameters and practice them until you can make the aircraft go where you want at the airspeeds and altitudes you choose. Its all a matter of building the discipline and skill to make the jet do what you want it to do.

[Laud]

You will usually have to fit your speed/climb speed to your CDU-requested IAS in missions with given TOTs. You could also find yourself in a mission where you'd additionally have to take fuel burn into acoount also. I'd say besides a minimum safe climb speed there are not too many procedure-side-restrictions on how you would climb rather than mission-timing/threat-related factors.

Finally all depends on the mission builder and the pilot(s) how far they want this thing to go. At least there are enough tables, charts and numbers available, to do some hardcore realistic flight planning, taking into acount stuff like weight, weather, loadout-drag, TOT, fuel capacities, changes in grossweight after dropping ordnance,...

[leafer]

Hmm. I want to rep you guys but I can't for some reason. I'll try again later.

 

Well, now that I think about it, without a full blown ATC then rules and regulations are pretty useless. I think for a carrer mode we need somekind of realistic option that'll repremand a pilot for deviating from flight plan, etc.

[effte]

If the pilots have any sense and the WX allows, they'll forget all about departure procedures and file VFR. This is a CAS aircraft, it's not meant to be flown like a mean-looking airliner... :)

[Laud]

It is a multimillion $, weapon carrying millitary aircraft. It has to interact and incorperate with lots of other allied aircraft over a battlefield. For the sake of safety and timing, I'm quite sure it's meant to be flown according to something like a plan. ;)

[tweet]

effte, you might think that but you'd be wrong. The procedures are part of a master plan. The more air traffic, manned aircraft as well as unmanned aircraft, missiles, and artillery shells, there is, the more important it is to deconflict them. There is always some latitude for free action but the risk of infringing on some other friendly force or being mistaken for a bad guy rises as you do your own thing. A guy is just as dead getting plinked by his own arty barrage as if a MiG got him. Modern warfare is a team effort that is heavily orchestrated and complex. It is damn hard work where dumb asses only cause trouble for everyone else.

[TheWHite]

All the info you need is here.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=60293

[hassata]

If your bottom line is to follow some sort of procedures to approximate real-world ops, maybe a good option is to MP with one of the more realistic squadrons out there. It's a bunch of guys adhering to common rules and standards, which sounds like fun to me.

[Laud]

It is indeed fun, but some might wonder how much time of the squadron-training is spent with procedures and comms and how little time with dropping ordnance.

[effte]

1) Are we talking training or area of operations?

 

2) VFR is one of the most effective means of filling airspace, when WX is reasonable. It most certainly does not preclude procedural restrictions either, in spite of what some seem to believe.

 

3) While I have not flown over Afghanistan (or gotten closer to one week from airborne over Iraq before having it cancelled - long story ;)) my reading tells me (google - there's info out there) that procedural separation is employed. Different altitudes for different flights in the same area, altitude separation between inbound and outbound etc. I wouldn't expect warfare and PANS-OPS/TERPS to blend smoothly.

[tusler]

You might enjoy looking these publications over, they cover alot of military doctrine concerning flight training.

 

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/pubs/patpub.htm

 

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/pubs/ppub_t44_c12.htm

 

http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/tc_1.html

 

http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/browse_series_collection_1.html

 

When they ask you how you got these just do like Schultz "I know nuthing"

[Succellus]

Interesting subject and interesting readings and comments.

[effte]

I knew I'd read an interesting article on one way of setting things up. Here it is:

 

http://www.avweb.com/news/pilotlounge/PilotsLounge_135_DaveHertel_IFRFlying_201502-1.html

[Laud]

1) Are we talking training or area of operations?

 

Both, I'd say. Depends on your mission. Some classic CAS missions will give you a lot of freedom how you manage to save your buddies a$$es on the ground. On other occasions you might have to consider fixed ingress/egress routes, min. safe altitudes, timings (when to be there and when to be gone again).

 

When moving around airbases you will always have to stick to ATC or uncontrolled procedures, to deconflict with other traffic around.

[Kaiza]

Military deconfliction out of airfields in war time is normally achieved by classified departure procedures specifically designed for the current airfield threats and will often involve some form of randomisation.

 

On station deconfliction is sorted in a number of manners, but normally via an Airspace Coordination Order, which assigns aircraft to a particular peice of airspace defined by both vertical and lateral boundaries (such as a killbox). This will often be coordinated from a ship, ground station or another aircraft.

 

Often aircraft operating within a common peice of airspace deconflicting visually and via radar will have safety altitudes so that if everything goes pear shaped and someone goes tumbleweed (looses all SA) aircraft can deconflict by immediately climbing or descending to their assigned safety altitude block.