Mig-29 maximum fuel load?

[mvsgas]

Cali, have seen the manual? The fuel system described in the manual seem very complicated. Maybe I just got used to the F-16 systems.

 

According to that manual the G/GT models used that gauge in a different manner. This is what is says on the old gauge before wing tank mod. The gauge is similar to the B gauge Alfa posted. After mod looks like S gauge and it does not say if the T P switch change functionality.

In position T the scale indicates fuel quantity

sensed by the capacitance-type gages in tanks 1, 2

and 3. In position P, tolal fuel quantity is displayed

as calculated by the fuel computer.

 

According to the manual 6505 kg for F-34 at 15C and 6318 for TS-1 at 20C are the maximum furl loads. I'm not sure how much of it would show on the gauge. it does say usable fuel is 7% leas of total and minus topical trap fuel, this is normal on all other aircraft I have worked before...the fact that gauge shows more fuel than what u can use. This was my point Alfa, the gauge doesn't have to show all the way up meaning that it does it have to show all the way to 7000 kg. I hope this explained my meaning better.

Edited March 23, 2011 by mvsgas

[Alfa]

According to that manual the G/GT models used that gauge in a different manner. This is what is says on the old gauge before wing tank mod. The gauge is similar to the B gauge Alfa posted.

 

Hmm the "G/GT" is an unofficial Luftwaffe designation assigned to denote modifications they made to the MiG-29s they inherited from the former East Germany.....and these were not MiG-29Bs. So if the former East German MiGs had the same gauge as the "lower spec" MiG-29B, then that would seem to counter my theory that it had something to do with down-rated engines of that version.

 

After mod looks like S gauge and it does not say if the T P switch change functionality.

 

Interesting - that does seem to indicate that there is a correlation between the range of the fuel scale and addditional external fuel capacity. But if you look at the two gauges, you can see that the "S-gauge"(for simplicity) also has an extra warning lamp - indicating low fuel level in wing tanks?.

 

According to the manual 6505 kg for F-34 at 15C and 6318 for TS-1 at 20C are the maximum furl loads.

 

Yeah that would be the total internal/external capacity with 3 tanks

 

I'm not sure how much of it would show on the gauge.

 

No thats the question - according to Froogfoot it only shows the internal tanks :)

 

it does say usable fuel is 7% leas of total and minus topical trap fuel, this is normal on all other aircraft I have worked before...the fact that gauge shows more fuel than what u can use. This was my point Alfa, the gauge doesn't have to show all the way up meaning that it does it have to show all the way to 7000 kg. I hope this explained my meaning better.

 

Well yes I understand that mvgas, but "trapped" fuel or not, my point was that on the 9-13 gauge the scale was changed to show a higher number although the increase in internal fuel capacity is neglible - and certainly no way near 1500 kg(the difference in max indication - 5,5 tons vs. 7 tons). If this gauge change wasn't made due difference in internal load, then I assumed that it was down to the(much bigger) extra external capacity via ability to carry two wing droptanks - which in turn would mean that the gauge actually should show external fuel.

 

Froogfoot says it shouldn't and that the max number shown on the scale doesn't necessarily indicate max quantity at all, but rather that the max number could be set to indicate the rate of consumption with the engines at max power when the gauge is in an alternate flowmeter mode

[mvsgas]

Man, I can't spell to save my life :D

Anyway, one thing I don't get. If you look at the old gauge, it has two switches. If I understand the manual (which I'm sure I don't) the upper left switch ...well switches the gauge from "tontalizer" to flow meter, but the new gauge ( the 7000kg) does not have that second switch. Also, maybe the tanks level is a Germany version thing. I have seen it before on aircraft that have so many versions (like the F-16) and AFAIK, MIG-29 deffer greatly from user to user.

[Alfa]

Man, I can't spell to save my life :D

 

No problem mvgas - I understood it all :)

 

Anyway, one thing I don't get. If you look at the old gauge, it has two switches. If I understand the manual (which I'm sure I don't) the upper left switch ...well switches the gauge from "tontalizer" to flow meter, but the new gauge ( the 7000kg) does not have that second switch.

 

Yeah I wonder about this too.

 

 

Also, maybe the tanks level is a Germany version thing.

 

I doubt it mvgas - IIRC Luftwaffe simply bought a kit directly from MIG and if you look at the (Soviet)9-13 gauge in the photo I attached, you can see that it corresponds closely to the description you got from the manual about the post-tank-mod for the "MiG-29G".....it also lacks that "upper" switch.

 

I have seen it before on aircraft that have so many versions (like the F-16) and AFAIK, MIG-29 deffer greatly from user to user.

 

Yes definately and perhaps especially the "MiG-29G/GT" because this furthermore contains changes for NATO compatibility - but exactly the tank/indication I don't think is among them.

 

Check attached photos I found of German MiG-29G pits - the first shows the pit with the old gauge type and the second with the new.....in fact you can still make out the Russian "T" and "P" labels on both gauges although many of the other instruments are re-labeled in English.

[Cali]

Cali, have seen the manual? The fuel system described in the manual seem very complicated. Maybe I just got used to the F-16 systems.

 

According to that manual the G/GT models used that gauge in a different manner. This is what is says on the old gauge before wing tank mod. The gauge is similar to the B gauge Alfa posted. After mod looks like S gauge and it does not say if the T P switch change functionality.

 

 

According to the manual 6505 kg for F-34 at 15C and 6318 for TS-1 at 20C are the maximum furl loads. I'm not sure how much of it would show on the gauge. it does say usable fuel is 7% leas of total and minus topical trap fuel, this is normal on all other aircraft I have worked before...the fact that gauge shows more fuel than what u can use. This was my point Alfa, the gauge doesn't have to show all the way up meaning that it does it have to show all the way to 7000 kg. I hope this explained my meaning better.

 

If that's how it works then I guess it's something. I'm just use to our jets, very easy to tell.

[mvsgas]

If that's how it works then I guess it's something. I'm just use to our jets, very easy to tell.

 

Also, Cali, the systems seems complicated. From what i understand, one tank will empty to a level, tat tank will stop and another will empty and keeps moving back and forth. Maybe is simpler than this and just did understand but 16 systems seem to make since outboard to inboard. Manual even states than external tank has to be individually filled, I guess like when we do leak and transfers. The manual has a chart that shows the sequence.

[mvsgas]

Alfa, I just notice this;

AFTER MODIFICATION WITH WING DROP

TANKS

The wing drop tanks are always refueled last. They

can only be refueled manually through filler caps.

To obtain the correct fuel amount, the fuel indicator

has to be adjusted manually for the amount of fuel

in the wing drop tanks (approximately 1 800 kg)

with the MAN adjustment knob on the fuel signals

calibration panel in the rear of the cockpit.

 

What i get from this is the tank will not tell the aircraft the amount of fuel in them, the amount is estimated. What do you think guys?

[Cali]

Also, Cali, the systems seems complicated. From what i understand, one tank will empty to a level, tat tank will stop and another will empty and keeps moving back and forth. Maybe is simpler than this and just did understand but 16 systems seem to make since outboard to inboard. Manual even states than external tank has to be individually filled, I guess like when we do leak and transfers. The manual has a chart that shows the sequence.

 

Yeah A-10's and F-16's make very good sense. You would think that you would want your tanks to feed that way. I know the F-15 feeds internal until the WOW switch is pushed (wheels up) then it starts to feed from the ext tanks. Like I said, I'm just use to the US jets. Where you can see how much fuel you have in each tank from the flip of a switch and no guessing.

[Alfa]

Alfa, I just notice this;

 

What i get from this is the tank will not tell the aircraft the amount of fuel in them, the amount is estimated. What do you think guys?

 

Yeah but then we are back at the question about fuelguage max values - because if you can manually calibrate the fuelgauge to show extra amount in ext tanks, then the scale must have the necessary extra range to cover it. Which would mean the expansion to 7 ton max indication indeed is related to external fuel after all.

 

It sounds like the system has two modes - an actual meassurement only for internal tanks and another that can cover any external fuel as well, but as calculated by a computer based on manually set initial amount......i.e. not meassured but estimated.

[ФрогФут]

but as calculated by a computer based on manually set initial amount......i.e. not meassured but estimated.

What computer?:D

It was investigated prior FC2 - MiG-29's fuel gage does not show external fuel tanks.:)

[Alfa]

What computer?:D

 

Quote from MiG-29 manual as posted by mvsgas:

In position T the scale indicates fuel quantity

sensed by the capacitance-type gages in tanks 1, 2

and 3. In position P, tolal fuel quantity is displayed

as calculated by the fuel computer.

 

 

It was investigated prior FC2 - MiG-29's fuel gage does not show external fuel tanks.:)

 

But then what does this(in bold) mean:

AFTER MODIFICATION WITH WING DROP

TANKS

The wing drop tanks are always refueled last. They

can only be refueled manually through filler caps.

To obtain the correct fuel amount, the fuel indicator

has to be adjusted manually for the amount of fuel

in the wing drop tanks (approximately 1 800 kg)

with the MAN adjustment knob on the fuel signals

calibration panel in the rear of the cockpit.

 

We are trying to understand how the damn thing works ФрогФут, so just saying that Eagle investigated it doesn't help us much ;) .

[mvsgas]

Is in the manual posted by JLZ, figure 1-20, page 1-46E. No sure the authenticity, i have no way to verify it. Look very good to me.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=959364&postcount=12

[Sawamura]

Today, i compared the Mig-29 S and the Mig-29 A in Lock On.

 

Mig-29A_____________________________________Mig-29S

max. fuel: 4400kg______________________________max. fuel: 3720kg

total time on afterburner 3:43 minutes_____________total time on afterburner: 3:52 minutes

 

 

HUH? Mig-29 A has stronger engines, maybe?

Edited March 25, 2011 by Sawamura

[Dr_Arrow]

Today, i compared the Mig-29 S and the Mig-29 A in Lock On.

 

Mig-29A_____________________________________Mig-29S

max. fuel: 4400kg______________________________max. fuel: 3720kg

total time on afterburner 3:43 minutes_____________total time on afterburner: 3:52 minutes

 

 

HUH? Mig-29 A has stronger engines, maybe?

 

not stronger, but less fuel efficient.

[Alfa]

Today, i compared the Mig-29 S and the Mig-29 A in Lock On.

 

Mig-29A_____________________________________Mig-29S

max. fuel: 4400kg______________________________max. fuel: 3720kg

total time on afterburner 3:43 minutes_____________total time on afterburner: 3:52 minutes

 

 

HUH? Mig-29 A has stronger engines, maybe?

 

No the engines are the same on the MiG-29 and MiG-29S.

 

But whats up with the "max fuel" numbers there? - neither of them make sense :D

[golfsierra2]

In FC2 Scripts\Database\planes, the MiG-29S.lua states MaxFuelWeight = "3500",

whereas the MiG-29A.lua states MaxFuelWeight = "3380".

 

???

[Sawamura]

I got these numbers from the instruments. :huh:

 

What the.. Can someone tell me, what the 'Zero Fuel Weights' of both Mig-29 types, are, please?

[golfsierra2]

I got these numbers from the instruments. :huh:

 

What the.. Can someone tell me, what the 'Zero Fuel Weights' of both Mig-29 types, are, please?

 

Empty / dry aircraft !?

[Vekkinho]

It's 3.380kgs (4.365 Liter) with 9.12 and 3500kgs (4.520 Liter) with 9.13.

 

Empty weight (without gun ammo, empty oxy tanks, no hydraulic fluids and fuel) is

~11.100kgs - 9.12

~11.150kgs - 9.13

Edited March 26, 2011 by Vekkinho

[IvanK]

The Fuel sensing units are capacitance types and measure internal fuel only. This is displayed on the tape. In the case were external tanks are carried the Ground crew make an adjustment on the ground maintenace panel to tell the fuel system the amount of additional fuel carried. This then is included and indicated by the fuel tape as a Total Fuel on board value.

 

Though the external tanks are not gauged the system can still "compute" fuel remaining using Fuel flow. This value is decremented by the fuel system and shown on the tape. When external transfer is complete The tape then shows "sensed" fuel remaining. In addition as Fuel feed from an external tank is completed the amber "end of feed" lights to the left of the fuel tape illuminate providing another cue that the externals are now empty.

 

The T & P switch simply allows the pilot to display Total Fuel remaining (Capacitance + computed) in the P position and just the capacitance (sensed) fuel remaining in the T position.

 

Earlier model MIG29's didn't originally have the ability to carry External wing tanks. A modification allowed this. Modified aircraft had a new fuel guage fitted hence the reason for the two different types being seen.

In FC1.12 the MIG29 Fuel system worked flawlessly :)

 

 

 

 

See also this thread:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=53797

Edited November 15, 2011 by IvanK

[pepin1234]

still not solved and we are in FC3

[EtherealN]

still not solved and we are in FC3 beta

 

Fixed that for you. :)

[Gater]

Still not fixed, Three Years Later.

 

I don't get it. Why did anybody bother to make the faux-3d cockpit of the Fulcrum look pretty if they were going to just leave the rest of it utterly broken? Payloads were never fixed, so a bunch of munitions that were carried are unavailable in public servers. The radar, which is admittedly junk, became even 'more' junk, and yet the Fulcrum A can't even get any datalink info from ground radars. And now this: The ONE most important consideration in a MiG, your gas... and you have no idea how much is actually there, to say nothing of the persistent lack of a flow indicator. What gives? Why is this aircraft getting short-changed so much?

Edited May 4, 2014 by Gater

[pepin1234]

Still not fixed, Three Years Later.

 

I don't get it. Why did anybody bother to make the faux-3d cockpit of the Fulcrum look pretty if they were going to just leave the rest of it utterly broken? Payloads were never fixed, so a bunch of munitions that were carried are unavailable in public servers. The radar, which is admittedly junk, became even 'more' junk, and yet the Fulcrum A can't even get any datalink info from ground radars. And now this: The ONE most important consideration in a MiG, your gas... and you have no idea how much is actually there, to say nothing of the persistent lack of a flow indicator. What gives? Why is this aircraft getting short-changed so much?

 

 

Wait and see the false datalink Targets in the russian MFD in multiplayer... also years so, lets guess?? These bugs will be fixed when in game exist a Western fighter with datalink??

[ФрогФут]

Т/Р switch is in Т position in the current cockpit - no fuel meter (T) in the external fuel tanks. Only fuel flow meters (Р). What to fix? Probably we will make it switch-able, as for F-15C in the new cockpit or just fix it in the Р poisition.