Secondary role being SEAD?

[Yskonyn]

No fly zone op in Libya made me look into something;

 

According to wikipedia and some books on military aviation I have, the Warthogs can also be used to perform SEAD missions as a second choice depending on 'availability and operational requirements'.

 

Are there recent real life examples of A-10s flying SEAD sorties? Which weapon loadout is then common to be employed?

What aircraft consist of the package normally in this case? Do they need support from other aircraft types? Maybe agile, high speed aircraft like Tornados to distract the air defenses while the Hogs go in for the kill?

 

To relate to the current Libyan situation; F/A-18s, F-15Es, Typhoons and F-16s seem to be used mainly at the moment.

Would it be a realistic scenario for Hogs as well?

[GGTharos]

There are real life examples of A-10's hunting for EWRs or SAM battery SR's, but not real SEAD. The A-10 does not have the capability to perform that function AFAIK, though the A-10C does have some additional (not modeled) niftyness that it can use to better prosecute or at least avoid certain SHORAD AFAIK.

 

Libya isn't a place where hogs would be useful right now. Hogs are meant to support boots on ground, and there are no qualified boots on ground to support. The long range interdiction mission is well enough handled by the jets being used there right now.

[Yskonyn]

Thanks for the quick input, GGTharos.

 

So the Tank-killer task is always primary for Hogs?

 

Does that mean that Hogs never fly long range sorties, because they are better suited for high-speed ground attack aircraft like the Strike Eagle or the Tornado (among others)?

 

Are Hogs often moving along with the frontline on forward bases? Instead of operating out of dedicated (larger) military airfields?

Like, how did this go in the Iraqi war?

[Mule]

Yskonyn there is a great book that will answer all those questions. It's called Warthog: Flying the A-10 in the Gulf War it's on Amazon and other places great read.

[PlainSight]

Clip about SEAD missions and why the F16 is the best for the job.

 

[LordWolf]

Hogs are CAS (Close air support, i guess that should answer it...)

Although, it has been refrenced that they were sent to do numerous other tasks as well.

[GGTharos]

Tanks and infantry, or destruction of anything else that crawls in the mud. They can do long range sorties as well, but realize this: They're slow. It'll take them twice the time just to get there and back.

 

They cannot do penetration missions in high-threat environments as well as the aircraft that were designed for it (F-15's, Rafaels, Tiffies, Tornados...)

 

The A-10 is meant to either go right ahead of your troops and mess up enemy armored formations (be they tanks or APCs, or mechanized infantry) or fight right along with the troops, providing CAS and strafing enemies that are engaging friendly troops - though that is best done by helicopters.

 

Thanks for the quick input, GGTharos.

 

So the Tank-killer task is always primary for Hogs?

 

Does that mean that Hogs never fly long range sorties, because they are better suited for high-speed ground attack aircraft like the Strike Eagle or the Tornado (among others)?

 

Are Hogs often moving along with the frontline on forward bases? Instead of operating out of dedicated (larger) military airfields?

Like, how did this go in the Iraqi war?

[Yskonyn]

Hogs are CAS (Close air support, i guess that should answer it...)

Although, it has been refrenced that they were sent to do numerous other tasks as well.

 

Exactly my point for asking.

 

Thanks for the input everyone. :thumbup:

Especially for the book recommendation. I'll see if I can find it.

 

Still on question remains;

Imagine the operation in Libya transitions from just enforcing the no-fly-zone and supporting the civilians to actively removing the regime where ground forces will be used (not very likely as of yet, but purely hypothetical to brainstorm a bit more on the Hog subject), would it be likely Hogs will be used in that case?

If so, from where will they likely operate? Western border of Egypt? Italy?

Or is it more likely that faster aircraft will fulfill the role of CAS like F-16s, due to the distance involved in the op?

[RodBorza]

Exactly my point for asking.

 

Thanks for the input everyone. :thumbup:

Especially for the book recommendation. I'll see if I can find it.

 

Still on question remains;

Imagine the operation in Libya transitions from just enforcing the no-fly-zone and supporting the civilians to actively removing the regime where ground forces will be used (not very likely as of yet, but purely hypothetical to brainstorm a bit more on the Hog subject), would it be likely Hogs will be used in that case?

If so, from where will they likely operate? Western border of Egypt? Italy?

Or is it more likely that faster aircraft will fulfill the role of CAS like F-16s, due to the distance involved in the op?

 

As much as I would like to see A-10s in action, I find that to be very unlikely. No US soldiers on the ground (officially , that is :detective_2:), no Hogs flying. Also, the US has other capable aircraft like the F-16 who can do CAS (not as good as the Hog), but the A-10s are better needed elsewhere, i.e., Afghanistan.

And fo the distance, the Mediterranean is not that big and you always have in-flight-refueling.

[Speed]

There is absolutely 0% chance US forces on the ground in Libya, other than the possibility of small numbers of top-secret CIA/special forces operatives. I believe the rebels have even said that if the US were to come, they would consider it an invasion and join with Khadafi/Ghadafi/Qhadafi/Dumbass dictator dude in fighting US forces. Remember, these guys don't like us much. If the US stays in the air, they will stay friendly, but if ground forces were ever sent in, they'd forget their feud with G/Q/Khadafi and turn hostile immediately.

 

So yea, it's not even a possibility, so why consider it? The only way I could ever see a US invasion is if G/K/Qhadafi launched some kind of Sept.11 style attack on the US.

 

BTW, what the %!#& is his name anyway? No one seems to be able to get it straight. I've seen three spellings. Must be something to do with it being able to be translated three different ways.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Speed

[Yskonyn]

That's beside the point here, gents.

I was aiming at getting the question answered where A-10s would likely be deployed from in the region IF (how unlikely at all) they would take an active part in the OP, in relation to speed of the aircraft and options for bases.

[Wayc00lio]

BTW, what the %!#& is his name anyway?

 

I believe his name is cocktard.

[Yskonyn]

Please keep this on topic and don't make it a political venting thread.

Its about operational facts of the Hogs.

[Snoopy]

A-10s flew in support of the No Fly Zone over Iraq in the 90s....I deployed to Kuwait twice back then....we flew our normal missions enforcing the no fly zone and had jets on alert for CSAR.

 

Also, as many know the 1st gulf war A-10s were used to try to find Scuds but actually search our AAA & SAMs that's a big negative...

[GGTharos]

They were used to hunt down a couple of elusive radars in the Balkans.

 

Also, as many know the 1st gulf war A-10s were used to try to find Scuds but actually search our AAA & SAMs that's a big negative...

[latearrival]

Yskonyn there is a great book that will answer all those questions. It's called Warthog: Flying the A-10 in the Gulf War it's on Amazon and other places great read.

 

For anyone that's interested in this book, I just ordered mine from http://www.bookdepository.com for under US$9 with free shipping! (http://bit.ly/e5JQLM)

[rockyalexander]

We didn't have any boots on the ground in Kosovo, but A-10s certainly played a role in that campaign. Which plane is the most likely to fly a CSAR mission absent the Warthog?

[Cezar11]

Just finished the Warthog book... very very good read.. tells a lot about the ROA-10G ( you'll understand when you read the book ) And this is the A-10A.. how they overcame the lack of all the cool toys is amazing...

[RichardG]

Thats why we need our F15, so let us have it. :) It can pretty much do anything a10 can, but faster, plus air to air and SEAD.

[GGTharos]

F-15E's cannot do SEAD.

[RichardG]

No kiddin? No HARMs for F-15E? I wonder what the reason for that limitation is?

 

In that case, we're gonna need an F-16 too. :D

[GGTharos]

Might have something to do with the fact that deep-strike fighter-bombers are just wasted on a job that some other fighter can do ;)

[Yskonyn]

What makes a good SEAD aircraft? Which systems does it need to carry/employ? Why can't F-15Es do SEAD missions?

And why can the Hogs do them as secondary roles?

HARMs are out of the question, aren't they?

[mvsgas]

What makes a good SEAD aircraft? Which systems does it need to carry/employ? Why can't F-15Es do SEAD missions?

And why can the Hogs do them as secondary roles?

HARMs are out of the question, aren't they?

1) Ability to effectively engage SAM systems

2) Jammers/HARM

3) Not sure

4) I don't think that is would or that it could

5) AFAIK, only USAF aircraft that can carry them is F-16C block 50/52. USN/USMC aircraft like the F-18 (A, B, C. D, E, F & G) and the EA-6 can also carry HARM

[GGTharos]

As mentioned before, they can't.

 

And why can the Hogs do them as secondary roles?