Su-25T vs. A-10C

[tflash]

Hows do you guys feel about flying both? I mean, not to compare the real aircraft about which I have no experience, but directly comparing Su-25T in FC:2 with A-10C in DCS.

 

I must say I still prefer the Su's straightforward and easy-to-read avionics. In particular the uncluttered HUD is helpfull, and I find it easy for navigation. The Hog's HUD is too cluttered.

 

Of course the Litening AT pod is absolutely transformational and makes medium-level attack profiles more natural, whereas in the Su-25T it involves some discipline not to get too low. The Su badly needs a targeting pod on the centerline.

 

As for the flight dynamics, the Hog is fantastic BUT the Su-25T has better speed, and I think that counts a lot. With the right loadout, it is impressively fast, maybe what I like most about it.

 

But where the Hog wins most clearly I find is in the countermeasures. The automated chaff/flare has saved my ass multiple times. In the Su-25T an Igla remains a very deadly threat.

[combatace]

See there are various categories of simmers like the hardcore ones(ones who would like to have every possible detail that can be added), some like advance flight model but would like simple avionics and would not like to engross themselves completely and other just turn on the game like to turn the engine on with one press of button go up shoot something, get happy and go aways/ Now its you who have to decide what kind of simmer you are.

[tflash]

It has nothing to do with what kind of simmer I am supposed to be, since I also fly Black Shark but on the other hand as well IL-2.

 

I really talk about what you like in Su-25T / A-10C. Of course an even better comparison could be made if Su-25T was available in DCS also, but its rendering in FC:2 is not bad at all and to be honest, the switchology of the A-10C is so smooth and natural that you do not even feel that it's there.

 

EDIT: I think now I understand your remark: with the Su-25T's simple avionics I did *not* mean the fact that it is simplified in FC:2, but the fact that it's avionics IRL are just more classic and "simple" than those of the A-10C.

Edited April 15, 2011 by tflash

[EtherealN]

I am a bit torn about them actually. Like you I do appreciate the speed that the Frog offers, but on the other hand this also has hazards for setting up attacks. The much higher closure rate you are forced into due to the swept wings makes for a much higher risk of being forced to commit to a re-attack - something you really do not want to do IRL. Add to that that the Hog is a much more stable platform... I don't know. For pure flying - the Frog. For warfighting - A-10.

 

Besides, I just love the Frog anyhow. Built model kits of it as a kid and all that. :)

[DarkFire]

I love flying both. For me the issue with the Su-25T is it's basic flight dynamics. The fact that the centre of lift is always aft of the centre of gravity makes it very unforgiving in high-alpha flight regimes. It's also very willing to depart from controlled flight under certain circumstances. Trying to avoiding MANPADS at low level when fully loaded is a recipy for disaster. I know, I know, you shouldn't ever be low & slow, but sometimes it can't be avoided. Having said that, I don't think that the Su-25T is quite the pig to fly that some make it out to be. I'm quite happy zooming around in it even fully loaded, you just need a gentle hand on the controlls.

 

The A-10C is much more forgiving of desperate flight manoeuvres and I love what you can do with the vastly more sophisticated avionics but to my mind it does impose a higher pilot workload than the Su.

 

I'd love to see the Su-25T and basic Su-27SM2 modelled to DCS standards. That way we could make a more accurate comparison.

[Boberro]

Well I'd choose Frog. I like what it offers - speed, many missiles with long range and SEAD ability. What I very like is feeling I FLY that plane. Every action has it counter-action depending of weather conditions, plane's position ect. It has flaws - flares deploy up to you not down and you don't have so cool TV there. In Lock on 3 compatible with A10C I will continue flying T-toad.

[ФрогФут]

The A-10C is much more forgiving of desperate flight manoeuvres

When has our flight model changed? A-10 has much more violent stall, than 25 has.:)

Su-25T wants to kill me only on crosswind landing and A-10C tries to kill me all the time.:D

But A-10 is more efficient against ground units(except SEAD) and has awesome GAU-8.:)

[GGTharos]

Then I would say Su-25T's FM needs some adjustments :D

 

Anyway I find if you have a steady hand, you don't need to worry about A-10C stall. Just need to learn to ride the 2uAoA horn.

 

When has our flight model changed? A-10 has much more violent stall, than 25 has.:)

Su-25T wants to kill me only on crosswind landing and A-10C tries to kill me all the time.:D

But A-10 is more efficient against ground units(except SEAD) and has awesome GAU-8.:)

[ФрогФут]

Then I would say Su-25T's FM needs some adjustments

A-10 has straight wing with V and 25 has swept-back front edge of the wing, so no cheating.;)

Anyway I find if you have a steady hand, you don't need to worry about A-10C stall. Just need to learn to ride the 2uAoA horn.

I landed A-10 without wings.;) It's not about worry or not - just not that comfortable as in Su-25.

[Sov13t]

СУ-25 vanilla any workday of the year. СУ-25СМ on the weekends.

[tflash]

Indeed comparing the flight dynamics of both aircraft is interesting, and the fidelity of the FM in both FC:2 and DCS makes it possible to compare imho.

 

In some sense I find the A-10's wing design gives it a bird of prey capability loitering over the battlefield, but it lacks the sudden dive capability that a real hawk or buzzard has.

 

The more arrow-shaped wings of the Su-25 make for a more speedy dive, yet I find it still has very good loitering capabilities.

 

I really enjoy how the sim lets you "feel" the wing and use the aerodynamics to keep optimal energy and manoevrability. And I would agree the A-10 offers in stability what the Frog offers in speed.

[159th_Viper]

Honestly cannot choose.

 

If I know there's a good chance I'm gonna pay the Butcher's Bill then it will definitely be in the T-Toad: In a 1 vs 1 the Hog is toast :D

[Kuky]

For me I like both, Su-25T can do SEAD and that's a big plus, but on the other hand it's lot harder to do multiple runs as every time you have to look for units in the TV where the A-10C can do circles forever and TGP will always look where you set it... that's a huge plus for the A-10C.

 

I don't like the slow speed of the A-10C and if you want to be fast in your attack and bug out quick I prefer the Su-25T. In normal ground strafing with no air defences Su-25A is even better, but then again A-10C kicks ass here too... anyway, I can handle both and like to fly both.