Mark points and Mavericks?

[RodBorza]

P.S. Why don't you want to use the rocker on the UFC to change steerpoint?

 

Thanks for the answers.

Regarding the rocker button, just a personal preference. I find easier to do it all while "hands on" the stick. For me, coolie hat, China Hat, Slew et all are at a fingertip/keyboard away. In those critical moments, I don't wanna to mess around with the mouse. But that is just me. :pilotfly:

[StrongHarm]

I hope the OP has their answer. If not, specify where you still need help.

Edited April 28, 2011 by StrongHarm

[nomdeplume]

Regarding the rocker button, just a personal preference. I find easier to do it all while "hands on" the stick. For me, coolie hat, China Hat, Slew et all are at a fingertip/keyboard away. In those critical moments, I don't wanna to mess around with the mouse. But that is just me.

Ah okay, that makes sense. It's not just you. I actually put the UFC onto one of my MFPs largely so I could use the waypoint rocker on the UFC. Making the HUD the SOI just so I could change the steerpoint was always annoying - but far less annoying than using the mouse!

 

The main reason is because the coolie hat on my HOTAS seems to be slightly faulty, and when I try to do "coolie hat right long" it nearly always registers as a short press, cycling the display rather than making it SOI. Since I've a habit of putting the TGP on the right console that makes it really annoying. If I press the hat left first and then hold it right, it registers properly, so I guess it's a hardware problem.

 

I have tried using the TGP on the left MFCD instead but it just doesn't feel 'right'... if you'll pardon the pun. :P

[Baggy MacDouche]

Since the UFC rocker is mappable, I set them as shifted DMS L/R. I use the small pinky button on my warthog(normally NWS/LAS) as a modifier.

 

I've gotten pretty good at doing recon and setting mark points. That way I don't have to touch the TGP at all when I am on my attack run. I use the laser to designate mark points, trying for a spot on the ground below the vehicle. This helps ensure that when the Mav is slaved to steerpoint, that it is going to be pretty accurate. With Mav as SOI, it's just a matter of selecting the mark/steerpoint, TMS-U-S, rifle, then without having to take my hand off the stick, use the shifted DMS to cycle markpoints, TMS-U-S, rifle, repeat. The Mav seeker seems to do a pretty good job of acquiring the target without having to get more precise with the TGP, but using the laser in area mode when creating the mark point is key.

 

Oh and Strong...don't you dare go anywhere. :)

[Zeke]

Baggy,

 

After you fire a Mav is the next one automatically slewed to the next Mark Point. When I do this, I find I have to hit China For Long for each Mav after I fire one.

[159th_Viper]

Irrelevant argument removed.

 

OP's question and subsequent 'derailment' has been more than adequately dealt with and accordingly no reason for subsequent posts by members being pedantic for no reason other than to irritate the person proffering sound advice.

 

We will not be going there again.

[Frederf]

Baggy,

 

After you fire a Mav is the next one automatically slewed to the next Mark Point. When I do this, I find I have to hit China For Long for each Mav after I fire one.

 

Quick Draw doesn't do anything that fancy. All it does is aim at where the last one was pointing. After firing the first Maverick it will be necessary to C-F-L or whatever other process you fancy to aim at the next target.

[159th_Viper]

After you fire a Mav is the next one automatically slewed to the next Mark Point...

 

No.

 

 

When I do this, I find I have to hit China For Long for each Mav after I fire one.

 

That is indeed necessary.

[Baggy MacDouche]

I have found that once mark points are set*, the Mav is SOI, and the china hat Aft Long has been initiated to slave to steerpoint, then from then on, as long as I don't change the SOI or slew the mav sensor, all I need to do is cycle the mark points and the next mav will automatically slew to the next mark point location.

 

I think the key to this might be that unless you use the mouse to click on the UFC rocker to change mark points(or have it mapped to your stick directly), you will need to make the HUD the SOI and use the DMS L/R commands to cycle mark points. I believe this will break the mavs slave to steerpoint. I'm not 100% on this point though.

 

This also works for the tgp of course. For example, lets say I set three mark points for one target each. After the run in and quick draw of the three mavs, I'll set the tgp to SOI and slave to steerpoint. I can then cycle the mark points starting on the first target fired on and watch as each mav impacts and then switch to the next mark point, etc.

 

*With this method, you want to give the next mav's sensor the best possible profile to detect the target. The more accurate you can make that mark point location the better. That way, when you cycle the next mark point and the mav sensor slews to it, it should be good enough for the sensor to create a "picture" and lock onto the target once you hit TMS-U-S.

 

You should never have to set a SPI or slew to an SPI with this method. It relies solely on mark point information and the mav's ability to identify and lock onto the target.

[KillaALF]

I think the key to this might be that unless you use the mouse to click on the UFC rocker to change mark points(or have it mapped to your stick directly), you will need to make the HUD the SOI and use the DMS L/R commands to cycle mark points. I believe this will break the mavs slave to steerpoint. I'm not 100% on this point though.

 

It's DMS U/D (or F/A) but no, this does not break the slaving. At least it did not the last time I did it, it worked exactly as you described.

[RodBorza]

I think the key to this might be that unless you use the mouse to click on the UFC rocker to change mark points(or have it mapped to your stick directly), you will need to make the HUD the SOI and use the DMS L/R commands to cycle mark points. I believe this will break the mavs slave to steerpoint. I'm not 100% on this point though.

 

This also works for the tgp of course. For example, lets say I set three mark points for one target each. After the run in and quick draw of the three mavs, I'll set the tgp to SOI and slave to steerpoint. I can then cycle the mark points starting on the first target fired on and watch as each mav impacts and then switch to the next mark point, etc.

 

Baggy,

Maybe you have an asnwer right there. Since now, as I use the HUD as SOI to change mark points, I always have to press China Hat Forward Long to make the MAV head to look at the next waypoint. Maybe, changing SOI does break the slave mode.

I'll have to try changing markpoints while keeping MAV as SOI and see if the MAV seeker moves automatically to nex target.

[nomdeplume]

Changing SOI won't unslave the Maverick from the SPI. Sensors will remain slaved until you give them another command.

 

Since we're talking Mavericks and you're usually firing them, that at the very least means locking on to a target. Doing that is another command: you previously commanded the Mav to "point directly at the SPI" but when you lock a target you're commanding it to "point directly at the thingy in your crosshairs". At that point you've broken the slaving - if you move the location of the SPI, the Maverick will keep tracking the target. Generally speaking, this is desirable behaviour.

 

This "canceling" of the slaving can also be done just by slewing the Maverick seeker yourself, even if you don't land on anything. As soon as you touch the slew control, you've told it to stop following the SPI.

 

All of this also applies to the TGP. If you slave it to your steerpoints and start cycling through, then move it around (even the tinest amount), it'll no longer be slaved.

 

@RodBorza - are you experience that you need to 'china hat fwd long' every time you change steerpoint in order to get the Maverick to follow, or only after firing one? You'll definitely need to use it in order to slave the next missile. Also, did you check out my video?

[Joker_]

 

The main reason is because the coolie hat on my HOTAS seems to be slightly faulty, and when I try to do "coolie hat right long" it nearly always registers as a short press, cycling the display rather than making it SOI. Since I've a habit of putting the TGP on the right console that makes it really annoying. If I press the hat left first and then hold it right, it registers properly, so I guess it's a hardware problem.

 

I have tried using the TGP on the left MFCD instead but it just doesn't feel 'right'... if you'll pardon the pun. :P

 

Am relieved someone else is having that problem. I have a Saitek X52 and experience exactly the same thing. So annoying, particularly when in the thick of it, and the TGP on the left console just doesn't satisfy.;)

 

Sorry for the short hi-jack; now back to your regular thread.

 

-- Joker

[RodBorza]

Changing SOI won't unslave the Maverick from the SPI. Sensors will remain slaved until you give them another command.

 

Since we're talking Mavericks and you're usually firing them, that at the very least means locking on to a target. Doing that is another command: you previously commanded the Mav to "point directly at the SPI" but when you lock a target you're commanding it to "point directly at the thingy in your crosshairs". At that point you've broken the slaving - if you move the location of the SPI, the Maverick will keep tracking the target. Generally speaking, this is desirable behaviour.

 

This "canceling" of the slaving can also be done just by slewing the Maverick seeker yourself, even if you don't land on anything. As soon as you touch the slew control, you've told it to stop following the SPI.

 

All of this also applies to the TGP. If you slave it to your steerpoints and start cycling through, then move it around (even the tinest amount), it'll no longer be slaved.

 

nomdeplume,

Thank you for clarifying that. Now it makes sense. :smartass:

 

@RodBorza - are you experience that you need to 'china hat fwd long' every time you change steerpoint in order to get the Maverick to follow, or only after firing one? You'll definitely need to use it in order to slave the next missile. Also, did you check out my video?

 

Yes, I always have to use China Hat Forward Long everytime after I fire one. Now I understand that it happens because everytime I launch a Maverick, I use the TMS Up Short to lock the missile. I still have to test it, but now I believe that the Mavs will follow the mark points as the TGP does (since I don't touch the controls, of course).

[FOXFIRE TWOONE]

I want to thank all those for their input on how to autoslew mav seeker to target, lock and fire. I have allways manualy slewed between targets and sometime that became frustrating when the seeker floated about during lock attempt. After reading this post over and over and going back and trying their methods I was able to move between tgt mark points, have the seeker follow but not lock. Then figuring out the final step, over a period to two days, I can now aquire, lock, and kill ( SIX ) tgt's in my best time to this point in ( 42 sec ) and that was with two miss steps of repeat tgt locks. :D

 

I never would have figure this out on my own by reading the manual, so thanks again.

 

:pilotfly:

[Evil.Bonsai]

Sorry to bring this back up, but after reading several threads, I've not found an answer.

 

I swear I saw a video that showed a line of targets with maverick as soi.

First vehicle was targeted, mav locked and fired then it jumped to 2nd target in line, locked and fired and so on.

 

Am I mistaking this for the TGP as soi, in that each vehicle was marked (I believe they were stationary), a mav was locked to first and fired then spi jumped to next target, repeat lock/fire? Was this 'jump' to next target auto using mark points or was that just someone manually selecting next markpoint and mav slaved to spi?

 

Everything I've read here and in other threads pretty much indicates that what I thought I saw isn't possble. I even thought it was in the mav training mission but it wasn't in there either. :/

[nomdeplume]

Am I mistaking this for the TGP as soi, in that each vehicle was marked (I believe they were stationary), a mav was locked to first and fired then spi jumped to next target, repeat lock/fire? Was this 'jump' to next target auto using mark points or was that just someone manually selecting next markpoint and mav slaved to spi?

 

The only way to automatically advance to the next waypoint is by flying over it, so yes, it would've been the player manually selecting the next waypoint, then using china hat fwd long to slave all to the spi, then locking the Maverick and firing.

 

Bear in mind you can advance to the next waypoint using the waypoint rocker switch on the UFC regardless of what the SOI is, so if you have that bound to a convenient key/button then you don't have to take your hands off the controls in order to do this.

 

The MAV may well have been SOI, as the mark points would have been set up earlier (probably using the TGP). Once they've been created you don't need the TGP again.

[Lane]

Sorry to bring this back up, but after reading several threads, I've not found an answer.

 

I swear I saw a video that showed a line of targets with maverick as soi.

First vehicle was targeted, mav locked and fired then it jumped to 2nd target in line, locked and fired and so on.

 

Am I mistaking this for the TGP as soi, in that each vehicle was marked (I believe they were stationary), a mav was locked to first and fired then spi jumped to next target, repeat lock/fire? Was this 'jump' to next target auto using mark points or was that just someone manually selecting next markpoint and mav slaved to spi?

 

Everything I've read here and in other threads pretty much indicates that what I thought I saw isn't possble. I even thought it was in the mav training mission but it wasn't in there either. :/

 

 

You have find yourself the explanation.

 

he have use markpoints.. let say A, B, C. he have mark them using the TGP, then set the Steer switch, from Flightplan to MARK. (AAP Panel under the CDU, left switch )

 

In this position, you don't need waypoint entered in CDU, the waypoint are directly replaced by the Mark.

 

Then you have just to use the UFC switch for move from Mark A, B C etc.. and the SPI will jump from mark A to B etc.. ( TMS up, fire > switch to C, TMS UP, fire > Switch to Mark C.. etc )

 

I use it offtly, when i have a column of tank as target or different targets grouped. You win a lot of time, as you prepare the attack first with TGP, mark your target group, move to MAVERICK and then use the mark for attack the different target without have to "unlock" / lock the next target, ideal for select first the AAA or SAM in the group ( first mark ), before launch your maverick then in less "lethal" vehicle.

 

It's not allways needed to enter the mark under a Waypoint, if you don't want.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Lane

[Evil.Bonsai]

Yeah, got to figure out where to map the UFC switch. I'm using a TM Cougar and all but 2 buttons (that I can't use) are mapped. I don't use keyboard much except for views and radio, might try setting up/down arrows to needed UFC buttons. That just might work: shift throttle hand over to arrow keys on keyboard, keep stick hand on TMS Up.

[711Hancer]

now your next lesson is to shoot mavericks in force correlate mode :)

[nomdeplume]

Yeah, got to figure out where to map the UFC switch. I'm using a TM Cougar and all but 2 buttons (that I can't use) are mapped. I don't use keyboard much except for views and radio, might try setting up/down arrows to needed UFC buttons. That just might work: shift throttle hand over to arrow keys on keyboard, keep stick hand on TMS Up.

Don't forget you can use modifier buttons, if you aren't already. So you can make "pinky switch + some other button" perform a different command than that button on its own would. Very useful for quickly doubling the number of commands you have easy access to on your HOTAS. Even with the TM Warthog, I still use the paddle switch as a modifier so I can have zoom in/out/reset, and NVG on/off/gain controls on the HOTAS.

[Evil.Bonsai]

I have it setup to use s3 as modifier. The only buttons not setup double are the trigger and weapon release. Sadly, I can't use IFF IN as it interferes with SPD BRK forward. I leave IFF OUT blank so as not to confuse myself. I set up the kb arrows for steerpoint up/down and it worked ok.

 

I'll have to check on the 'force correlate'. I know it's an option, just haven't delved into it yet. Went to office max yesterday to look for the right paper. Going to start printing sections of the manual so I can reference more in the cockpit.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Use Force Correlate mode on buildings.

 

 

The seeker becomes nauseating and hard to slew as you approach closer to target. But I agree that Force Correlate can allow a launch beyond missile parameters (range), however, seldom a missile hits unless its high enough, and provided the ignition is still on..

[711Hancer]

and never shoot more than one tank with force correlate since they tend to move out once their buddies got destroyed by your first maverick.

[Fish]

.......have you mapped your UFC Steer switch to your hotas? ......

 

Yes !! Works a treat then