Air Refueling help

[PeterP]

I´ve got an X-52pro and I cant get it properly trimmed. it always trimms a little bit too much or to less (anyways hoe carefully I set the trimmer) which makes me decreasing or increasing Altitude just a little, but that is still enough to not get aligned with the tanker. Is there a possibility to adjust the trimmer as well?

 

My experience about trimming with a non-FFB stick during a AAR:

Gradually trimming leads almost every time to a overcorrection - as you don't get a direct feed-back at your hand.

You just wait for the "optical"response and than readjust - sometimes this is a little too much lag while in a AAR.

 

- you can only compensate this by practice and muscle training - or just use something like this:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=83814

Edited November 23, 2012 by PeterP

[WildBillKelsoe]

After a few days of constantly trying to get this down, it's been very, very frustrating with each successive failure.

 

I can get it hooked up, but staying on the boom is another story all together, either to much or too little speed, or to much movement from side to side.

 

I've changed my joystick settings to get them where I can handle the bird ok, but it seems like no matter what I do the trimming part is a little off, once I get it trimmed well, the change of speed messes that up.

 

So, I guess what I'm asking is for some help on the finer points on air refueling. What are the reference points. I've watched a ton of vids on you tube, searched and read whatever I could find on this forum, and read what is in the manual. I have a Cougar HOTAS and am using Viper's profile for it.

 

HELP!

 

Some notes about AAR

 

• Throttle rocking back and forth all the time.
  
• speedbrake a notch open
  
• set joyX/Y curvature to 50%
  
• check mission editor for tanker speed (true) and altitude
  
• if using trackIR, pause it. frame the tanker to windshield
  
• do NOT chase boom. Boom operator chases you once steady under his sweet spot.
  

[FreeFall]

I´ve got an X-52pro and I cant get it properly trimmed. it always trimms a little bit too much or to less (anyways hoe carefully I set the trimmer)

 

I have noticed that too. I think that no matter what hotas or stick you have, you cannot "fine tune" trim.

[PFunk1606688187]

[*]set joyX/Y curvature to 50%

 

My problem with this kind of advice is that it isn't practical for normal flying and only really has any use for canned "I'm going to practice refueling" sessions. I don't think excessive curvature has any advantage in learning since its not a realistic way to fly the sim and therefore any methodology you're learning with this high of a stick curve is just muscle memory that won't be applicable in a normal mission. I find flying anything over 30% curve feels like I'm flying through fluidic space.

 

My stick curve after much testing is something in the range of 12-16% for Pitch, 0% for Roll. I find this gives the best balance between gentle pitch corrections and not having that runaway effect when you pull back harder on the stick in a normal maneuver.

 

I don't apply any curve to roll because I find it unnecessary considering the fact that the aircraft naturally returns to straight level flight (as per normal design) and therefore doesn't like to fly off of this under most circumstances (assuming you've trimmed it already for any asymmetrical payload weighting).

[Snaut]

Is precise trimming that important when refuelling? There are always some oscillations when you throttle up or down during refuelling that you'll need to constantly compensate with stick inputs. I generally match the speed of the tanker and then only roughly trim the plane for level flight in precontact.

 

I think it is the throttle that is much harder to 'feel' and more important.

[sobek]

Is precise trimming that important when refuelling?

 

Being in trim certainly makes it easier.

[Sierra99]

So, I guess what I'm asking is for some help on the finer points on air refueling. What are the reference points. I've watched a ton of vids on you tube, searched and read whatever I could find on this forum, and read what is in the manual. I have a Cougar HOTAS and am using Viper's profile for it.

 

Zeke all I can pass along are the thing I heard while flying on a receiver aircraft in the Air Force.

 

When I refuel, I zoom my view back until the top of the center windshield is even with the top of my monitor. The biggest thing you have to do is keep your eyes moving... Don't fixate on one thing like the boom or the tanker. After you get in contact, just fly formation with the tanker.

 

Sierra

[PFunk1606688187]

Is precise trimming that important when refuelling? ...

I think it is the throttle that is much harder to 'feel' and more important.

The thing to bear in mind is that the truer the trim the less variable the changes from throttle up and down, also the kinds of micro thrust changes you're making won't have much of an effect on the aircraft's attitude. We're dealing with closure rates of less than a few few per second and trying to feather that, thats pretty fine.

 

But the thing I find is that if your pitch attitude is "locked" you basically can fly on throttles almost entirely. If you have to adjust pitch noticeably to stay on the boom then its taking the problem more into 3 dimensions which means every adjustment you make has more possibility of taking you out of the 3 dimensional position you need to be in.

 

The problem for most people I think with throttles is that its just a harder intellectual facet to wrap your head around. Its the least direct variable in the AAR puzzle, compared to the instantaneous input and result you see in Stick changes. Given the delay in the realization of whatever changes are made to the throttle it means that you can't as easily recover from a poor or excessive input like you can with a stick change where going a bit high just means coming down a bit lower.

 

However, when you think about it stick inputs again become problematic. Any real time in a good sim will teach you that changing pitch attitude has a direct effect on the relative forward speed of an aircraft, so pitching up or down will necessitate a change in throttle to maintain the same relative forward motion. Given how quickly we tend to react to our mistakes made in the stick the corresponding correction that should be made to the throttle is severely delayed by comparison.

 

Also, I find that trim inputs in the A-10 being so... well poor tends to make finding the perfect trim balance for pitch harder than finding a zero closure rate for throttles. That my stick isn't a marvel of potentiometer engineering also contributes to a desire to limit the need for fine stick inputs.

 

I do however think that the way you look at the difficulties of AAR has a direct relationship with the quality of your stick and the confidence you have in its accuracy and fine handling.