Is RVV-AE opertional missile?

[Sov13t]

Was it cleared through the ГСИ, certified for use, but USSR or RAF did not purchase it due to lack of funds in nineties? What about after nineties?

 

Certified for use. I believe even based on documentation it "entered service", at least the document for it was signed. But, never went into production, by mid-nineties things were looking very grim, this is when the various bureaus tried to penetrate the weapons market by presenting RVV-AE to interested parties.

 

Something like the PGM?

 

We shall see, 2013 is the target year. Research K-77M, KС-172 as possible candidates.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Certified for use. I believe even based on documentation it "entered service", at least the document for it was signed. But, never went into production, by mid-nineties things were looking very grim, this is when the various bureaus tried to penetrate the weapons market by presenting RVV-AE to interested parties.

That is good enough. Certified for use and formally introduced in service, but not purchased due to lack of funds and no imminent need, makes R-77 valid weapon in Flaming Cliffs. And confirms the existence and availability of the R-77 missile.

[asparagin]

We shall see, 2013 is the target year. Research K-77M, KС-172 as possible candidates.

 

Just a joke - (You reminded me on how some behavior psychologist wanted to develop Pigeon-Guided Missiles)

I have no reason to doubt or not to doubt the research project you described.

[Vekkinho]

AFAIK noone bans MiG-29S players who use R-77...

 

Real Su-27S can carry it, can launch it but cannot guide it...

[tflash]

AFAIK noone bans MiG-29S players who use R-77...

 

Real Su-27S can carry it, can launch it but cannot guide it...

 

Do you mean that it can not give mid-course update to it? I would find it surprising it cannot guide it. First part of flight of the missile is standard semi-active, no?

[Sov13t]

Vek, you are a little off with that statement. The launch part. Unless you mean jettison :)

 

Do you mean that it can not give mid-course update to it? I would find it surprising it cannot guide it. First part of flight of the missile is standard semi-active, no?

 

While anything can be strapped to an aircraft, the Flanker can even carry the uber amraams if there is a need (not talking about the game). Carrying it is one thing, launching is another. The weapon system will simply fail to properly test, initialize and prepare the weapon for deployment without proper interface and knowledge of the missile, which the 27S doesn't have. While it is transparent to the pilot/virtual pilot... the on-board systems go through a lot of routines to prepare the missile and display that it is indeed ready for launch. Even the "old fart" 27R has a rather complex algorithm of preparation/readiness/launch/impact.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Sov13t

[tflash]

Can be true, but good software design has also to do with compatibility. There are many current IR missiles that support basic Aim-9 launch routines.

 

that this is more complex on a radar guided missile is understandable.

[Vekkinho]

Sov13T, you're completely right about that, do You remember Su-27 with a bicycle strapped to it's wing?!

[nscode]

Vek, you are a little off with that statement. The launch part. Unless you mean jettison :)

 

 

 

While anything can be strapped to an aircraft, the Flanker can even carry the uber amraams if there is a need (not talking about the game). Carrying it is one thing, launching is another. The weapon system will simply fail to properly test, initialize and prepare the weapon for deployment without proper interface and knowledge of the missile, which the 27S doesn't have. While it is transparent to the pilot/virtual pilot... the on-board systems go through a lot of routines to prepare the missile and display that it is indeed ready for launch. Even the "old fart" 27R has a rather complex algorithm of preparation/readiness/launch/impact.

 

Exactly. And there are even many 27R versions and if your weapons system isn't programed for that exact one that you have - it simply doesn't work. (It's a true story from a certain airforce :music_whistling:)

[Alfa]

First part of flight of the missile is standard semi-active, no?

 

No Semi-active (radar) is a homing method - i.e. concerning the last part of flight.

 

During initial stage of flight the missile is steered by its inertial navigation system(INS) with radio transmitted target updates from aircraft radar("midcourse guidance") - this is the case for both the R-27R/RE SARH missile and the RVV-AE ARH.

 

But..

[Alfa]

 

While anything can be strapped to an aircraft, the Flanker can even carry the uber amraams if there is a need (not talking about the game). Carrying it is one thing, launching is another. The weapon system will simply fail to properly test, initialize and prepare the weapon for deployment without proper interface and knowledge of the missile, which the 27S doesn't have. While it is transparent to the pilot/virtual pilot... the on-board systems go through a lot of routines to prepare the missile and display that it is indeed ready for launch. Even the "old fart" 27R has a rather complex algorithm of preparation/readiness/launch/impact.

 

Precisely.

 

The WCS not only needs to recognise the weapon, perform pre-launch tests etc, but it simply needs to know all parameters of the weapon in order to know how and when it can be deployed in an engagement.

[tflash]

Precisely.

 

The WCS not only needs to recognise the weapon, perform pre-launch tests etc, but it simply needs to know all parameters of the weapon in order to know how and when it can be deployed in an engagement.

 

True, but you don't necessarily need another radar for that, today this would be a software update. Or you swap a module. I'm not saying this would be as easy on old, mostly analog designs like the original N001, but a later generation N001VEP? Was such an upgrade not offered to the Chinese?

[GGTharos]

There's a whole lot more to it than that. THis isn't your PC, no one cares if you swap out your video card and it doesn't work, or if it breaks down - except you.

 

In an air force you have to inventory the missile, spare parts for these aircraft, you have to train technicians on to deal with the new module ... it is a lot of work and a lot of money. THere's no 'you just have to ... ' ... period.

 

True, but you don't necessarily need another radar for that, today this would be a software update. Or you swap a module. I'm not saying this would be as easy on old, mostly analog designs like the original N001, but a later generation N001VEP? Was such an upgrade not offered to the Chinese?

[Alfa]

True, but you don't necessarily need another radar for that, today this would be a software update. Or you swap a module. I'm not saying this would be as easy on old, mostly analog designs like the original N001, but a later generation N001VEP? Was such an upgrade not offered to the Chinese?

 

Not only offered - the N001VE is installed in the currently operated Su-30MKKs.

 

But Tflash the N001VE cannot be categorised as later generation - it is precisely an upgrade to the old N001, which among other things incorporate the RVV-AE into the WCS. Whether this constitues "another radar" or not I guess is a matter of semantics.

 

You are right that integration of new weapons is made easier with more recent designs(such as the Zhuk-M) due to open architecture WCS based on MIL-STD-1553 databus, but that doesn't mean that its a simple 5 min job though :) .

[Cali]

All new software has to go through extensive testing to be certified to use on a weapon system. Like Alfa said it isn't a 5 minute job, it takes lots of work behind the scenes, testing and then more work. Only if things were that easy, the world could be a better place.

[tflash]

No Semi-active (radar) is a homing method - i.e. concerning the last part of flight.

 

 

Oops ... not my smartest post! But what is still not clear to me, Alfa, is whether on an Amraam, once you are behind the first part of INS guided flight, and before the active homing radar initiates, there is not a part of flight that is guided on the reflection of the Aircraft's radar return signal, like a SAHR missile?

 

Or is this mostly replaced by the datalink exchange (one-way: aircraft to missile; or even two-way: missile updates its exact position also to launching aircraft?)

 

So I would say: INS - SAH - ARH ?

 

Or INS - midcourse datalink update - ARH ?

[Alfa]

Oops ... not my smartest post! But what is still not clear to me, Alfa, is whether on an Amraam, once you are behind the first part of INS guided flight, and before the active homing radar initiates, there is not a part of flight that is guided on the reflection of the Aircraft's radar return signal, like a SAHR missile?

 

I don't think so Tflash. The INS supported by updates from the aircraft radar should be adequate for bringing the missile within ARH seeker acquisition envelope - at least when we are talking about a modern medium range weapon like AMRAAM or RVV-AE.

 

But for a long range weapon it may very well be useful to combine SARH/ARH seeker functionality(to compensate for accumulated nav errors over longer range) and to to take advantage of a powerful radar of carrier platforms that normally employ such weapons(i.e. dedicated interceptors) to extend the seeker acquisition range via initial SARH operation.

 

AFAIK the AIM-54 seeker does indeed work in this fashion - also I remember reading that the seeker head for the proposed R-37(extended range ARH version of the R-33) is combined SARH/ARH.

 

Or is this mostly replaced by the datalink exchange (one-way: aircraft to missile; or even two-way: missile updates its exact position also to launching aircraft?)

 

So I would say: INS - SAH - ARH ?

 

Or INS - midcourse datalink update - ARH ?

 

For the AMRAAM and RVV-AE it would be the latter - prior to launch the aircraft radar uploads target information to missile INS, missile is launched and is steered toward target position by INS(employing proportional navigation method), while receiving target updates from aircraft radar - once the missile reaches own seeker acquisition range and can acquire the target by itself, the missile becomes autonomous.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Alfa

[mikoyan]

no picture means that it is unreal :megalol: