TIR Question...thinking about buying

[Druid_]

Save your Money !!!!

 

I wouldn't buy TrackIr now, not with some great webcam solutions out there to tide you over until the raft of head/body tracking hardware that is here now (e.g. Kinect) or arriving shortly. Personally I can't wait to get rid of the damn antlers!

[Succellus]

Wait a little more until spreading the end of the world.

Kineck won t be that cheap and aint that small.

[Druid_]

Wait a little more until spreading the end of the world.

Kineck won t be that cheap and aint that small.

TrackIr ....... $169.95

MS Kinect ... $139.53

 

Kinect tracks a little more than just your head and more accurately and without the backlight problems as well, not to mention inbuilt microphone etc. Other devices (possibly smaller) on the horizon.

[Succellus]

139.53+ support 39.99 = 169,52

 

Such a diff.

And yeah you can t do your daily fitness or be a measter of kungfu neither be fred astaire with track ir....

But who cares anyway.

 

And i haven t seen kineck precision, neither kinect program for DCS, IL2 Etc...

[hassata]

I'd be surprised if TIR weren't working on a face-track model.

[Succellus]

I d be surprise if face track ain t a rogue program based on TIR.

 

Who came first the egg or the chicken as we say here.

[Druid_]

139.53+ support 39.99 = 169,52

+ support 39.99 , huh? explain please

 

And i haven t seen kineck precision, neither kinect program for DCS, IL2 Etc...

You have got to be kidding me ...

 

 

as for the DCS software, watch this space (MS SDK release soon, see here ).

 

 

Sounds like you have something invested in trackIr or maybe you work for them.

 

TrackIr is old technology, admit it. If you'd prefer to stay with TIR fair enough while the rest of us move forward. Google Primsense, kinect, and face tracking and come back to the conversation when you are better informed.

 

I d be surprise if face track ain t a rogue program based on TIR.

 

Who came first the egg or the chicken as we say here.

 

I suppose this guy copied TIR source code also

 

 

 

as for the chicken & egg, don't really care but I like mine scambled or Roasted please. (NP didn't invent face tracking!)

Edited May 18, 2011 by Druid_

[cichlidfan]

Not to interrupt but...I just hooked TIR up and used Wags profile to get it going and my first impression is...

 

Oh *****

 

Nothing printable came to mind.

 

It will take a bit of getting used to indeed but, Holy Crap!!

[WynnTTr]

When all those other technologies catch up to the precision of my TrackIR 5 then I'll gladly switch.

 

We're PC gamers all of us here so we're not adverse to upgrading and buying new tech. it's not fanboism to stick up for something that works... and works well.

 

Does that facetrack work with the same precision - if I snap my head will it lose the tracking? What if I have a darker face? Do those others support 64bit?

 

As far as Kinect goes when they make it so that it recognises a virtual HOTAS (I can probably simulate sitting down too) then there's really no point in sticking that big sensor on top of my monitor just to do something that TrackIR does already. Unless you've hooked up your xbox to your main PC gaming screen as well, why would you put a Kinect sensor up there?

[IADC]

[

QUOTE=WynnTTr;1201824]When all those other technologies catch up to the precision of my TrackIR 5 then I'll gladly switch.

Once tuned in which takes about 45 minutes, or it did me it is as precise as the Track iR.

Does that facetrack work with the same precision - if I snap my head will it lose the tracking? What if I have a darker face? Do those others support 64bit?

When it comes to holding the track it actually works better than TiR and the PS3eye camera works very well in a dark environment.

Unfortunately no they don’t support 64 bit yet unless you use ppjoy but then again this is all free ware right now but i am sure the first one to bring out a retail product that has been tuned properly will bury TiR.

[WynnTTr]

[

QUOTE=WynnTTr;1201824]When all those other technologies catch up to the precision of my TrackIR 5 then I'll gladly switch.

 

Once tuned in which takes about 45 minutes, or it did me it is as precise as the Track iR.

 

Does that facetrack work with the same precision - if I snap my head will it lose the tracking? What if I have a darker face? Do those others support 64bit?

 

When it comes to holding the track it actually works better than TiR and the PS3eye camera works very well in a dark environment.

Unfortunately no they don’t support 64 bit yet unless you use ppjoy but then again this is all free ware right now but i am sure the first one to bring out a retail product that has been tuned properly will bury TiR.

Call me a skeptic but if it works just as good then why aren't they more prolific?

I can safely say that TIR5 is ultra smooth and hasn't lost track no matter how much I fling me head. I use both clip when wearing headphones and the vector when speakers and both work extremely well.

 

I'd like to see some vids of how good the tracking is. Might persuade some scoffers like me to actually give it a shot jsut to check it out - and what are we talking about here, that facetrack or freetrack?

I'm at work but I'll have to google some youtube vids about them both and see how they stack up.

Mind you though the competitors have to be really good/revolutionary/support more than what TIR offers to knock them off.

 

If something does come out to bury TIR, then I'm sure most of us will just switch over. Not like we're married to Naturalpoint or anything - but let's cross that bridge IF we come to it. So far I'm still waiting for it to be built.

[combatace]

One more thing to add if you don't get more than 40 fps in the game even free track is good.

[winz]

I suppose this guy copied TIR source code also

There is a big difference between tracking an object in a 2d picture (my webcam can do it) and computing how that object is moving in 3D space.

 

You can also see that the point tracking he created is very jittery (the point is not steady, but is changing rapidly), you can see that effect every clearly in the PIP on 2:25. I want my view in sim to be rock steady.

 

Kinect is not more accure than trackIR (personal experience).

[Druid_]

There is a big difference between tracking an object in a 2d picture (my webcam can do it) and computing how that object is moving in 3D space.

I agree, although I must say I rarely use the Z? axis (move closer or further away from the screen, I believe most people use a zoom key or button because of the limitations inherant in the HUD display. Webcam face tracking do it and do it suprising well though.

 

You can also see that the point tracking he created is very jittery (the point is not steady, but is changing rapidly), you can see that effect every clearly in the PIP on 2:25. I want my view in sim to be rock steady.

Sure, this is some software that is built by a Phd student and is also for recognition as well as tracking, also consider the amount of movement he makes compared to what you make sat in your chair in front of your TIR receiver. Not a bad effort for 1 guy don't you think.

 

Kinect is not more accure than trackIR (personal experience).

Have you used the hacked pc drivers and tried it hooked up to your pc or are you talking about an xbox experience? Also are you comparing similar movement i.e. sat still moving your head left/right/forward in a similar vain to when you use your TIR or leaping about the living room ;). Maybe it won't be as accurate, I don't know, I doubt it though, the damn thing can lip sync. Running on pc it should be more accurate, check this out.

 

My first & subsequent posts are in reply to the thread starter & I just wanted to point out that it may be worth exploring other alternatives. A friend of mine with TIR hooked his ps2 camera up to DCS and I was quite frankly blown away by how good it was. The downside for some was that the CPU hit is about 10fps, he's running at 80 so no probs for him there. (don't know what TIR hit is tbh).

 

I know of 1 helicopter sim developer that intends to explore the possibility of using the kinect to also track hands for button pushing, if it works well then you can probably bet others will follow.

 

Would I spend the money right now on a new TIR5, with the existing cheaper alternatives and exciting technology on the way ... well my answer would be NO I'm afraid. A technology which has no light problems, doesn't mean wearing a hat or antlers, incorporates a microphone & is also able to track more than your head gets my vote. At the very least wait until MS release its SDK for the kinect (which is v soon although I'm sure I'll get quoted on this in subsequent posts by the uninformed) and see what the developers (many) can come up with.

 

There's nothing so healthy for the consumer as good competition.

[cichlidfan]

My first & subsequent posts are in reply to the thread starter & I just wanted to point out that it may be worth exploring other alternatives.

 

...and I do appreciate your thoughts and the time you took. I had already ordered by the time you posted but that is fine. Your information was very interesting.

 

I, however, have reached the point where I am more willing to purchase something off the shelf rather than experiment, at least for something that I wish to use as a "production" tool as opposed to an intriguing project. I can appreciate the latter for sure. Back in the '80s I had most of the lights and some other circuits in my home controlled by a Commodore 64.

 

As for the cost, now that I have it, I consider it worth every penny! Thanks again for an interesting read.

[IADC]

TiR hit on FPS is negligent. I think the point here for all to note is this hardware/software option is just around the corner for us simmers. I have been mightily impressed with the free software by Face Track Noir running with the PS3 cam. It’s not good for everyone as most people don’t want to muck around setting stuff up but hey TiR out the box still needs some tuning.

Another point to take into consideration is when I spoke to Wim who developed FTR he was not developing it for DCS series and therefore no specific considerations had been given to those SIMS.

Another thing to consider is, The Kinetic can lip sinc/read. It could be used within a sim to give radio commands, Radio switch pushed forward (WHHOTAS), call F4 for JTAC, and continue on giving commands for all the read backs.

No more mashing the F Keys, no more goofy antlers stuck to side of your head, built in directional mic for voice comms. Seriously how good can it get?

It might be an idea to throw $50k at the Face Track Noir developer and get him to implement the above using kinect technology....

[winz]

I agree, although I must say I rarely use the Z? axis (move closer or further away from the screen, I believe most people use a zoom key or button because of the limitations inherant in the HUD display. Webcam face tracking do it and do it suprising well though.

So you don't look around? Even rotation is a 3D movement and cannot be achieved by a simple 2D picture tracking. You have to have atleast 3 steady points to be able to achieve 6DOF.

 

Sure, this is some software that is built by a Phd student and is also for recognition as well as tracking, also consider the amount of movement he makes compared to what you make sat in your chair in front of your TIR receiver. Not a bad effort for 1 guy don't you think

I personally do quite bit of movement when things gets messy. He was just sliding around, my webcam can track me while I move around. His project wasn't about 6DOF control, but about face recognition and that is a different problem.

 

Have you used the hacked pc drivers and tried it hooked up to your pc or are you talking about an xbox experience?

Only at xbox.

The main problem I see with kinekt in this application is its size and limited fov.

[IADC]

Call me a skeptic but if it works just as good then why aren't they more prolific?

I can safely say that TIR5 is ultra smooth and hasn't lost track no matter how much I fling me head. I use both clip when wearing headphones and the vector when speakers and both work extremely well. Quote]

Sorry completely disagree about TiR having perfect stability. On frequent occasion TiR craps its self for no known reason half way through the game and you have mash the crap out of F12 to keep it synced. After several hours of flying the TiR gets so screwed up your FOV is limited to in and around the HUD view and you can no longer look up through the canopy. If someone opens a door to your lair and lets in anymore light than permitted TiR craps itself again. If you get to the point of severe frustration and TiR will not cooperate the only solution to fixing it is shutting down the sim, shutting down TiR and then starting it all back up again. TiR will not let you restart it without restarting the SIM so its recognized.

Maybe it’s just my Track iR and 20+ other mates I know who own them that have this problem. maybe they were duds....

[Druid_]

^ I have same problem although not quite as bad as some. Its a solution but its in no way perfect thats for sure.

 

I'd also add that with the trackclip pro, an awful lot of tweaking is required to stop the fore/aft movement when you rotate your head as a result of the clippro being on the side of your head and not in the middle. Even then its not ideal.

 

 

The main problem I see with kinekt in this application is its size and limited fov.

As for the FOV with Kinect, it will come down to placement, if you have your monitor on a wall and sit 2 ft from it then I guess you are stuffed otherwise there are options. I have seen a Kinect used on top of a monitor so are you sure the FOV is that limiting? These specs say almost 60 degrees, how much moving about are you doing man?

 

I don't think size is a problem, there are solutions.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Druid_

[IADC]

 

Are you talking about something like when the wife comes into the puter room to drag you out after you been in there for 5 days. If so then I agree the Kinect will not be able to maintain that sort of FOV:D

[Druid_]

yep but hopefully the face recognition software will alert you to her presence first and automatically alt-tab you to the holiday booking website or something suitably acceptable.

[BigBANGtheory]

The main problem with Kinect is that you can't currently use it for head tracking in DCS A10-C, its simply not a viable option today and for at least the short term future.

 

Its a bit like saying should you buy DCS A10-C beta, full release, steam version, boxed version, after printed manual or once the Nevada update is available?

 

I have an Xbox kinect I would love to plug it into my PC and use it in game, but I can't and I don't believe I'll be able to anytime soon.

 

Its also frustrating Natural Point not taking the lead on this, they are selling old tech at a premium price in 2011 so I'm not defending them either.

Edited May 19, 2011 by BigBANGtheory