Is Trimming Needed When Landing in A10C?

[Bruins]

After reading through the forum, I understand trimming is often needed during flight. But my plane seems to either take a dive or pitch up when I try to land. I find myself fighting the stick to get the AOA correct. When you're on a glideslope, are you supposed to manually pitch down (stick forward)? My landing is very unstable if not erratic. Thanks for your suggestions.

[159th_Viper]

Would be advisable to post a track of your landing so that we may properly advise you on what the issue might be.

[Chrisakky]

You got your HOTAS set up right?

I usually like to trim so that the aircraft is in stable, level flight before I start pitching for the glide slope. Then the rest with the stick as I hardly ever tutch the trimmer when I'm really close to the runway.

[sobek]

After reading through the forum, I understand trimming is often needed during flight. But my plane seems to either take a dive or pitch up when I try to land. I find myself fighting the stick to get the AOA correct. When you're on a glideslope, are you supposed to manually pitch down (stick forward)? My landing is very unstable if not erratic. Thanks for your suggestions.

 

You aren't really supposed to use the stick at all (except for roll). You pitch trim for the desired speed, then use the throttles to stay on the glide slope.

[JIMJAM]

Worth a check...

When I first loaded A-10 I set the Saitek rudders as left and right brakes. Then I noticed when I used them the plane would do as you described making landings impossible and overall handling poo. The brakes were being registered as roll and pitch and causing the plane to upset when I used them.

Also a uneven weapons loadout will do it. But sloppy roll,pitch from what Ive seen was always related to the rudder.

Also try another map,mission. I had a saved edited mission that I was using as a graphics test bench and had alot of ill handling issues. Loaded another fresh mission and it stopped.

[Qazme]

I normally trim out constantly on landing just like in flight. At the initial point of descent into the airport, 3500ft., I'm trimmed out flat and level. Once I get to that point and start my turn to final I trim it out to make ~500fpm nose down. I do that because once you hit the glide slope it takes between 800 and 1000fpm to keep you in the right area without touching the stick too much. It's basic pilotage, I would think if you plane is becoming unstable you are going too slow.

 

On approach try to stay between 140-150 with any kind of load. If you dropped and fired everything and are lowish on fuel come in around 120-130. Another thing to keep in mind you need full flaps dropped as well, as it gives you more lift at slow speeds when you are on your final.

[sobek]

I normally trim out constantly on landing just like in flight. At the initial point of descent into the airport, 3500ft., I'm trimmed out flat and level. Once I get to that point and start my turn to final I trim it out to make ~500fpm nose down. I do that because once you hit the glide slope it takes between 800 and 1000fpm to keep you in the right area without touching the stick too much. It's basic pilotage, I would think if you plane is becoming unstable you are going too slow.

 

That might work for you, but in general, trimming for vertical velocity is not encouraged. What trim really influences is what speed the airframe will hold (all by itself, just try it out). So trying to trim for vertical speed is like trying to shift for steering in a car (well, kind of :)).

 

What pilots in general do is trim the aircraft for the airspeed that gives them the correct AoA for approach, then use the throttles to obtain the correct vertical velocity. It seems a bit counterintuitive at first, but once you got it, you will nail that landing every time.

[Tailspin45]

Exactly. Pitch controls airspeed, throttles control altitude.

[Qazme]

That might work for you, but in general, trimming for vertical velocity is not encouraged. What trim really influences is what speed the airframe will hold (all by itself, just try it out). So trying to trim for vertical speed is like trying to shift for steering in a car (well, kind of :)).

 

What pilots in general do is trim the aircraft for the airspeed that gives them the correct AoA for approach, then use the throttles to obtain the correct vertical velocity. It seems a bit counterintuitive at first, but once you got it, you will nail that landing every time.

 

Umm exactly, I trim out to ~800-1000fpm(VSI) which holds the airframe at the right AoA and speed for approach. It's what you are supposed to do to maintain glideslope without need for throttle or pitch adjustments. Then the plane, in clear weather, basically flies itself to the runway where you only have to flare and chop the throttles. Least that's the way I learned to fly, maybe new flight training is a bit different but I doubt it. You can't adjust height in level flight, when you apply or decrease throttle it changes your angle of attack, hence the reason you trim for speed.

[FlyingBrick]

I was wondering about flaps setting on approach.

 

According to the manual flaps should be set to the DN position which is 20 degrees on approach, so when would I need 30 degrees of flaps? Maybe during bad turbulence or landing with a heavy load?

[GGTharos]

Yes, you should trim so that you have a hands-free aproach.

 

Keep your aproach speed steady! It's the change in speed that's causing your problems (and possibly the lack of trimming). Control your AoA and altitude with the throttle, and your speed with the stick. If you pull up, speed goes down. Push down, you speed up. That's how you should think of it.

 

After reading through the forum, I understand trimming is often needed during flight. But my plane seems to either take a dive or pitch up when I try to land. I find myself fighting the stick to get the AOA correct. When you're on a glideslope, are you supposed to manually pitch down (stick forward)? My landing is very unstable if not erratic. Thanks for your suggestions.

[GGTharos]

You have three settings: UP, MV and DN. Given that, I'm not certain I understnand your question :)

 

I was wondering about flaps setting on approach.

 

According to the manual flaps should be set to the DN position which is 20 degrees on approach, so when would I need 30 degrees of flaps? Maybe during bad turbulence or landing with a heavy load?

[FlyingBrick]

You have three settings: UP, MV and DN. Given that, I'm not certain I understnand your question :)

 

Well, the flaps indicator shows a maximum of 30 degrees. It's not possible to extend 30 degrees of flaps?

 

I guess I should have experimented a bit more:doh:

[Qazme]

You have three settings: UP, MV and DN. Given that, I'm not certain I understnand your question :)

 

I don't think he knows that 20 degrees is "DN"(Down) and "MVR"(Maneuver) is 7 degrees for takeoff. I would suggest checking out Page 105 in the manual for the flap position indicator and what each setting is for, along with airspeed requirements.

[GGTharos]

Hehe, sort of like your airspeed indicator marking speeds higher than the 'wings are gonna rip off' max speed of the A-10 ;)

[Qazme]

Hehe, sort of like your airspeed indicator marking speeds higher than the 'wings are gonna rip off' max speed of the A-10 ;)

 

LOL you mean I can't go 600!!!

[Melcar]

LOL you mean I can't go 600!!!

 

Sure, straight down.

[sobek]

Umm exactly, I trim out to ~800-1000fpm(VSI) which holds the airframe at the right AoA and speed for approach.

 

That's not what i meant. You use trim to influence airspeed, not vertical velocity. I would doubt any flight schools credentials that teaches you otherwise. :)

[Qazme]

That's not what i meant. You use trim to influence airspeed, not vertical velocity. I would doubt any flight schools credentials that teaches you otherwise. :)

 

I hit the speed I need at the angle I need, then trim the aircraft to match. Simple reason do do that is so that you don't have to concentrate on more in the cockpit besides watching airspeed and altitude on approach, in perfect conditions in all reality there is much more going on at times depending. You never adjust trim for vertical velocity, unless you are trying to maintain climb at speed. I think we just had a misunderstanding, we are talking about the same thing in two different ways lol.

[sobek]

I hit the speed I need at the angle I need, then trim the aircraft to match. Simple reason do do that is so that you don't have to concentrate on more in the cockpit besides watching airspeed and altitude on approach, in perfect conditions in all reality there is much more going on at times depending. You never adjust trim for vertical velocity, unless you are trying to maintain climb at speed. I think we just had a misunderstanding, we are talking about the same thing in two different ways lol.

 

Yes i think i see what you are getting at now. :)

[hassata]

Pitch controls airspeed, throttles control altitude.

 

Next time you're cleared for take-off, I want you to pull back as hard as you can on the stick and see how fast you get to Vr. J/K :).

[Qazme]

Next time you're cleared for take-off, I want you to pull back as hard as you can on the stick and see how fast you get to Vr. J/K :).

 

Does that include using the throttle. If not you are using the ejector seat "stick". lol

[Frostiken]

That might work for you, but in general, trimming for vertical velocity is not encouraged. What trim really influences is what speed the airframe will hold (all by itself, just try it out). So trying to trim for vertical speed is like trying to shift for steering in a car (well, kind of :)).

 

What pilots in general do is trim the aircraft for the airspeed that gives them the correct AoA for approach, then use the throttles to obtain the correct vertical velocity. It seems a bit counterintuitive at first, but once you got it, you will nail that landing every time.

 

Huh? Dropping speed drops your nose, how the hell do you maintain AOA while using throttles? As you lose airspeed you *will* have to pull the stick back, otherwise the aircraft will drop its nose in order to try to maintain airspeed.

Edited June 4, 2011 by Frostiken

[sobek]

Huh? Dropping speed drops your nose, how the hell do you maintain AOA while using throttles?

 

I just trim for the approach speed, then i operate the throttles so i stay on the glideslope, easy as that. If your speed is correct, so will be your AoA.

[Qazme]

I just trim for the approach speed, then i operate the throttles so i stay on the glideslope, easy as that. If your speed is correct, so will be your AoA.

 

Yeah that's what I was trying to say in so many words.