Request: Expanded Multi-Display Support

[BHawthorne]

I would like to make a feature request to better suit options for multi-display. I would like the ability for the DCS engine to properly cater to 2x1, 3x1, 4x1, 5x1 and 6x1 both in portrait and landscape modes. Also the ability to accommodate flat screen and circular. At the moment only single and triple screen flat panel are catered to.

 

At the moment circular multi-projector setups are gaining traction in the home sim community and there are at least four different software pre-warping utilities out there catering to multi-projector home consumers. This allows for a far more immersive environment for users. At issue is how games handle multi-display though. They are designed to be flat panel LCD display centric and also have issue with anything over 180 degrees. My suggestion is to allow the ability to set up to 360 degrees FOV by assigning 60 degrees per display for 6x1L and 72 degrees per display in a 5x1L configuration.

 

My dilemma at the moment is I am working up a new prototype demo build to promote NTHUSIM and there simply isn't any content to show off at 5x1L or 6x1L @ 360 degrees. I'd like to show off the DCS series in such a setup in booths for AMD and/or NVIDIA. I have close connections with AMD and they are interested in such a build. My problem is I don't want to show off FSX on the setup. I'd rather show off something like DCS: A-10C.

 

I'd like to see a setup in preferences where it would be roughly like this:

 

Screen Configuration: (Options: 1x1, 2x1, 3x1, 4x1, 5x1, 6x1)

FOV Per Screen: (Options: 60, 72, Custom)

Screen Configuration: (Options: Flat, Circular)

 

If ED can make this happen, I can give it high visibility at events by AMD promoting Eyefinity.

Edited August 11, 2011 by BHawthorne

[power5]

What is the need for the flat or circular preference? Wouldn't the amount of degrees determine the "shape"? Aren't all more than 1 monitor setups circular?

[OutOnTheOP]

No, they are not all circular. The thing is, you can put three monitors all next to each other, with their faces parallel... basically like one super-wide monitor, OR you can cant the side monitors inward.

 

Now, the software should be told how far inward they are canted, so it can project the image correctly. If it does not know, it treats it as a single wide monitor and you end up with a "fish eye" effect.

 

To see this in action, set up a three monitor array with the edge monitors canted in 45*. Run the three-monitor display settings in DCS- this accounts for the inward bend. Then try running the single monitor display setting with the resolution stretched across all three. You'll notice a definite fish-eye effect. Much faster framerate, but at the moment I'm happier running 28 FPS with correct aspect ratios than 40 FPS with extreme warping at the edges.

[Frostiken]

I think what he means is that the FOV is wrapped and scaled properly so that you can actually look to your right and see out the right side of the jet, whereas just stretching the FOV gives you an intense fisheye effect - even with just three monitors the edges of them start to exhibit this effect.

 

Honestly I don't see the point of investing resources into this. The number of people who use multiple monitors dwindles exponentially with every monitor you add. Everyone has one monitor, a handful have two, a minute number have three, an insignificant amount of more than three and so forth. Investing resources so that a couple dozen people with $10,000 to blow on an elaborate setup of 5 good-quality projectors (figure $6-700 apiece) and the triple-SLI'd bleeding-edge computer you'd need to even run A-10C at anything even approaching a playable framerate at that resolution (figure another $3k)... what's the point? Probably less than a hundred people have that setup.

 

In the world of flight sims, you will always have the obsessive fringe nutjobs who will want to take it to a disturbingly high level - I'm talking about the kind of people who fly a DC-10 of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong to New York in real time. At some point you have to draw a line, and I think supporting the insignificantly small number of customers who have invested more money than they do their car into living out their unrealized flying fantasies has kind of crossed that point.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Frostiken

[cichlidfan]

If wishes were fishes...:D

[BHawthorne]

The idea is to promote it at AMD events. It's not my pocketbook. They want to one-up things and show eye candy and that means I have to do more than 3x1L like I have been before for them. I have the projectors in inventory, just need content to show off on a greater than 180 degree screen. High visibility and co-marketing with AMD would be a driving factor, not whether most people would do it or not.

 

I could always just use FSX and VRS Superbug with the TacPack, but I'm not too hot on promoting FSX, as it's not new and interesting.

Edited August 12, 2011 by BHawthorne

[BHawthorne]

Honestly I don't see the point of investing resources into this. The number of people who use multiple monitors dwindles exponentially with every monitor you add. Everyone has one monitor, a handful have two, a minute number have three, an insignificant amount of more than three and so forth. Investing resources so that a couple dozen people with $10,000 to blow on an elaborate setup of 5 good-quality projectors (figure $6-700 apiece) and the triple-SLI'd bleeding-edge computer you'd need to even run A-10C at anything even approaching a playable framerate at that resolution (figure another $3k)... what's the point? Probably less than a hundred people have that setup.

 

In the world of flight sims, you will always have the obsessive fringe nutjobs who will want to take it to a disturbingly high level - I'm talking about the kind of people who fly a DC-10 of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong to New York in real time. At some point you have to draw a line, and I think supporting the insignificantly small number of customers who have invested more money than they do their car into living out their unrealized flying fantasies has kind of crossed that point.

 

Nice thread crap there. The addition of your 2 cents to the thread I found rather insightful about you. Please remember next time that your opinion is only valued when it isn't condescending and insulting to those in the thread. I think I'll draw my own line and tell you that you've crossed it here. :thumbup:

Edited August 12, 2011 by BHawthorne

[Cali]

Frostiken, you'd be surprised to know how many people have mulit-monitors. I have 3 a 27", 24" and 15" I use the 27 and 15 inch for FC2 and DCS. The 27 is my main one, while the 15" shows who is on Ventrilo or TS or what other info I want to drag to it. The 24" is facing the other way and I use it for Arma and normal computer stuff. Here is what my set-up looks like http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1217825&postcount=19

 

But I plan one running 3 monitors when I build my next computer. Monitors are cheap now, you can get 22" for under $150 at some places.

[Frostiken]

There's a difference between two monitors (which I even have) and actually stretching the game across three or more.

 

The most effective use of two monitors seems to be to put the game on one and Helios, MFDs, or typically non 'game world' stuff on the other. That's what I do. That still means that it's useless for the purposes of the OP. Sorry for not being clear on it.

[Cali]

If I had 3 monitors the same size, I would of got an ATI card so I could. Since they are different sizes, it's pointless for me to do that. Using Helios is useless to me since you can't fly online with it, which is all I do, I don't do single player.....that's boring to me.

[BHawthorne]

No, they are not all circular. The thing is, you can put three monitors all next to each other, with their faces parallel... basically like one super-wide monitor, OR you can cant the side monitors inward.

 

Now, the software should be told how far inward they are canted, so it can project the image correctly. If it does not know, it treats it as a single wide monitor and you end up with a "fish eye" effect.

 

To see this in action, set up a three monitor array with the edge monitors canted in 45*. Run the three-monitor display settings in DCS- this accounts for the inward bend. Then try running the single monitor display setting with the resolution stretched across all three. You'll notice a definite fish-eye effect. Much faster framerate, but at the moment I'm happier running 28 FPS with correct aspect ratios than 40 FPS with extreme warping at the edges.

 

It's also a bit more than that though. Triple-screen mode in DCS engine treats each screen as a flat surface. When it's a uniform circular projection, you pan the camera up and down it doesn't look right on the setup. Hence why I say the current DCS triple camera setup is designed for flat panels, not circular.

 

See how the horizon pans in a fractured manner in this video:

Edited August 14, 2011 by BHawthorne

[OutOnTheOP]

I think we're using different definitions of "circular". Yeah, I don't mean actual curved projector screens or anything. It's kind of a waste to put programming man-hours into that for the two or three guys that actually have such a setup. However, LOTS of people are running a three-monitor setup.

 

In fact, lots are running three monitors with extras running Helios or similar software. What I would like to see, more than support for additional viewport area, is support for exporting displays outside the game rendering viewports (specifically MFCDS, CDU, RWR, CMSP, Clock, etc). Right now I'm running three monitors plus three for control consoles, and I have to tell the game to render in five of them so I can get the MFCDs and all to show up under Helios. Of course, the game doesn't care that 95% of screen surgace on the two control console monitors is blank, it STILL hits the framerate as bad as if I were running the 5-screen resolution.

[BHawthorne]

I think we're using different definitions of "circular". Yeah, I don't mean actual curved projector screens or anything. It's kind of a waste to put programming man-hours into that for the two or three guys that actually have such a setup. However, LOTS of people are running a three-monitor setup.

 

Actually, you'd be surprised just how things have taken off for triple projection in the last year. It's a case of an issue of a catch-22 dilemma though. Only few will use a triple projection setup for DCS games because of the issues, but there aren't enough projection users that use DCS to warrant it.

 

Again, at issue is that it's a potential showcase of the DCS engine in a high profile location. I've already lined up two other options to showcase, but it would be nice to have DCS: A-10C as a third option. VRS and XSI are already on-board for product co-marketing at events. It would be nice to have ED in that group.

Edited August 17, 2011 by BHawthorne

[walker450]

Great idea BHawthorne. Thanks for all of your hard work trying to better the community.

[RvEYoda]

What is needed is support for multiple configurable cameras

[BHawthorne]

What is needed is support for multiple configurable cameras

 

True, that would solve the problem too.

[Jinja]

I would LOVE to see support for curved screens.

I'm another one running triple screens, currently 3x21" LCDs (+1 for HELIOS+MFDs)

 

If curved projection was properly supported that would instantly become top of my todo list.

[NinjaMonsta]

+1