Emergency strips

159th_Viper · October 13, 2011

However, to find 'holes' in what Bluepilot writes when his point is so obvious is downright dumb. :)

Airstrip #1: Surface unknown, Length approx 400m

Airstrip #2: Non-existent

Humour me - how on earth is that 'Holes'? Want to debate a point? Back it up with facts and substantive corroboration, not whimsical fancy - you will get called out, everytime, and especially so if you want to get away with calling a fellow debatee 'dumb' ;)

bluepilot76 · October 13, 2011

Alright folks lets not start arguiing...

just to set the record straight however, attached is an image of the airfield to the south west of Zugdidi.

Now I dont know which one of Vipers no1 or no 2 this refers too, but it clearly has a runway that was originally 2000m long, later a road crossed the northern end of the runway leaving about 1600m that you could easily stick an A10 on to.

BTW there is, to my eye, a probable runway (possibly only ever grass), that runs northeast-southwest as well.

I would be interested to see the hi res image that covers the area north east of Zugdidi so I can look for other runway if Viper could kindly share the link to the appropriate mapping information?

chaos · October 13, 2011

Airstrip #1: Surface unknown, Length approx 400m

Airstrip #2: Non-existent

Humour me - how on earth is that 'Holes'? Want to debate a point? Back it up with facts and substantive corroboration, not whimsical fancy -)

Point being that if there's something in real life -especially something as crucial as a runway, however short, in a flightsim, it should be ingame... again... in principle...

I don't mind debate and used the word 'dumb' to provoke a reaction. It worked didnt it? Just to be sure... I don't think anybody here is dumb... I think... ;)

159th_Viper · October 13, 2011

Point being that if there's something in real life -especially something as crucial as a runway, however short, in a flightsim, it should be ingame... again... in principle...

There are for all intents and purposes 27 recognised Airports In Georgia:

http://www.ourairports.com/countries/GE/airports.html?show=all

#1: The Airport referred to by bluepilot in the following quote -

......just to set the record straight however, attached is an image of the airfield to the south west of Zugdidi....

is inactive for a very good reason, being that the runway has only recently been constructed and in fact opened by the Georgian President on 9 May 2011.

Airport #2 is unrecognised and in all probability a derelict civil airstrip with a runway of unknown surface at a stipulated original 2000ft length (now well foreshortened as per satellite imagery).

To find #2, just follow the road and railway NE from Zugdidi - approx 10 miles from centre of town IIRC parallel with the railway line.

mvsgas · October 13, 2011

Guys, really?

You really need to see a grass field?

You guys realize that the TAD is based on aviation maps, which are updated more frequently and easily than the software in the TAD, AFAIK?

Pilots still carry aviation maps of the region that they are flying in for this reason.

I understand the modeling of a closed runway that can accommodate the sim ( A-10 plus other aircraft) but to spent time creating an airport that can't be used?

Obviously I don't control development and I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, just wondering the value everyone would get.

bluepilot76 · October 13, 2011

errr no, I dont need to see grass fields, I only mentioned it as it appears fairly obvious to me and supports my theory that that airfield is actually very old. I dont NEED to see any extra airfields, I just think it would be better if the sim world matched the TAD map a bit more closely.

I think you will find that it is much easier to update a TAD database than to carry an up to date map. Aviation charts are out of date from the moment they print them, and they dont print new ones every day, more like once a year. Navigation databases on aircraft seem to be updated monthly. beyond that of course the pilot has NOTAM information.

Viper,

the runway that has been foreshortened by the road IS the one to the SW of the town (that you keep claiming is brand new). That was the point of my posting the image; It can be seen to be an old runway.. And it is 2000 METRES not 2000 feet...

I cannot view the runway to the N of the town because Google maps doesnt show that area in any detail, which is why I asked for the link to the mapping you showed a clip from.

159th_Viper · October 13, 2011

Viper,
the runway that has been foreshortened by the road IS the one to the SW of the town (that you keep claiming is brand new). That was the point of my posting the image; It can be seen to be an old runway.. And it is 2000 METRES not 2000 feet...

I cannot view the runway to the N of the town because Google maps doesnt show that area in any detail, which is why I asked for the link to the mapping you showed a clip from.

I'll say this one last time:

That runway is an airport under construction, ie a new runway only opened on 9 May 2011. If you are basing your assumption that it is an old runway based on satellite imagery then I'm afraid I'm not convinced. It could just as well have been a pic taken whilst construction was taking place.

As for the other - as I said: Follow the road and railway line due NE out of town and you'll find the airstrip.

bluepilot76 · October 13, 2011

You can say it as many last times as you like, wont make you right.

The fact that an OLD airfield has been updated does not mean that there was no airfield there before.

If you cannot see the difference between an old airfield and an airfield under contruction then I dont know what more to say, but I will try again...

perhaps you could point out the bulldozers, piles of spoil, portakabins, roadways etc that usually occur as people start tearing up virgin countryside to make runways or roads? Could you also explain the ancient concrete runway with the helicopter pad markings near the middle? or the perimeter track that is all overgrown at the northern end..Maybe you are right maybe it was never used as an airport and they have been building it since 1939, just very VERY slowly!

Dream on Viper!

159th_Viper · October 13, 2011

Could you also explain... .... ...just very VERY slowly!

I tried - you didn't get it.

It's OK though - it's all Good :thumbup:

Edited October 14, 2011 by 159th_Viper
Edited for clarification/To avoid unnecessary confusion

bluepilot76 · October 13, 2011

making false quotes from my previous posts is not that cool.... and only mildly amusing...

but I guess your the Moderator and ED Tester with 8000 posts and a million reps so you must be allowed to do that ...right?

Cali · October 14, 2011

Maybe he made a :poster_oops: It happens...

Edited October 14, 2011 by Cali

159th_Viper · October 14, 2011

Maybe he made a :poster_oops: It happens...

Yeah I did. My Bad :doh:

I left out a coupla dots:

Could you also explain.... .... ...just very VERY slowly!

Edited afore-said post for clarification. Will teach me to be in a hurry.........

bluepilot76 · October 14, 2011

Yes Hender,

I think you are right, it is obviously a tall order to expect the DCS world to match exactly the TAD map. I love the real life aviation maps in the TAD, I think they add a LOT to the realism of the cockpit, so I wouldnt want to swap an accurate but artificial map in any case.

Just to add that even in 2003 (see google earth) the 2000m runay to the SW of the town was in exactly the same state as it is in the imagery I already posted (from 2007), to consider that this could possibly represent an airfield under construction is unrealistic.

And to reiterate that they DO NOT put airfields on aviation charts untill they have opened. Saftey first!

I wonder how old the maps are on the TAD in the sim...

Edited October 14, 2011 by bluepilot76
Thought better of it

bluepilot76 · October 14, 2011

Yes UK CAA aviation charts also show abandoned airfields, as long as they are still recognisable as such. East Anglia and the east coast of northern Scotland are littered with concrete runways left over from WWII. The UK CAA symbol for an abandoned airfield is a circle with an "x" inside. They make good navigation markers and many could be used in an emergency. I have landed at an abondoned airfield several times. You would hardly notice the difference, except the lack of landing fees.

They would not show an airfield that does not exist yet because it would be unsafe to do so.

mvsgas · October 14, 2011

I do not work on the A-10 ( maybe Paulrkii can help us out) but I do not see the TAD being updated that often. Software updates are less common than the maps updates. If the actual paper map where less accurate, would the aircraft system supersede them? At least in the F-16, paper maps are more updated than any terrain, software or map system.

Edited October 15, 2011 by mvsgas

bluepilot76 · October 15, 2011

Your probably right about the updates to the TAD, I imagine the military are not so quick to update there TADS as for example civilian operators flying with certified Garmin databases. They ARE updated more regularly than the charts. It is simply impractical to make new editions of charts more frequently than say every 12 months.

That only enforces my point that the airfields that are shown on the TAD exist prior to May 2011 or whenever the President (Re) opened that one.

The ACTUAL reason why people still carry paper charts around is VERY simple. ...apart from it being a legal requirement to carry the chart....When all the electics go tits up, you still will be able to find out where you are, and get to where your going. Thats also why even the most modern aircraft has a good old fashioned compass.

Edited October 15, 2011 by bluepilot76
spelling

Wags · October 15, 2011

Sorry but no. We are now moving on to some new maps.

bluepilot76 · October 15, 2011

Roger that!

Thanks for stopping by Wags. Good to see the ED team keeping an eye on The Wish List!

hmmm, new maps for old theatres, or new maps for NEW theatres..I wonder..

effte · October 15, 2011

http://peg-reilly.blogspot.com/2011/06/stuck-in-taxi.html

What? You didn't know Zugdidi had an airport? Well, it does, sort of. There's a runway and a sign that says it will reopen in 2011. And these men were working on something there (if you look to the right toward the back, you can see upright sticks that mark the runway).

(My italicization)

There. Scottish civil war averted. Now, give me my Nobel peace prize. If that can't be arranged, I'll settle for food. As long as it's not haggis.

;)

Cheers,

/Fred

bluepilot76 · October 15, 2011

Well done Effte..

Time put this one to bed.

No haggis! you'll nae be wanting a wee dram either then...

Shall we call it a truce Viper!, untill they put some flyable MiGs in the sim anyway...

effte · October 16, 2011

you'll nae be wanting a wee dram either then...

Hey! I got that, and yes I would! :)

(Aviators must know enough of even the most peculiar languages to pick out critically important information like that.)

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