Lighting for night AAR

[Kula66]

Any hints/tips regards best lighting?

 

* How do you find a blacked out tanker in the new 'dark' nights? Can I get him to flash or show lights? Or do you have to use NVGs?

 

* When I approach the tanker and get close, the tip of the probe is illuminated by my lights but not the colours at the top of the flexible bit even when connected - so I cant see whether to speedup/climb/descend or slow down ... is there a floodlight to light up the entire probe? In NVGs I obvious have no colour but could work it out I suppse.

 

Thanks

[Inseckt]

If I may be so bold as to add to Kula's questions:

 

* How is it done IRL?

[JG2_Miller]

1. As you said NVG, TACAN, and sometimes I set my TGP to A-G mode. If you use WHOT mode it shouldn't be a problem to find the tanker and make it SPI. That way I always have a symbol over the tanker in my HUD.

2. Check your lighting panel for "Nose Illumination". This light is set at your nose and should illuminate the area around the boom.

Edited November 14, 2011 by JG2_Miller

[Kula66]

Thanks JG2, I'll try and find the switch! The TACAN is ok but not precise enough for a dark night ... and you have to get very close to get the lights on via a pre-contact call. I suppose you could use a combination of NVGs/TGP and then switch to lights when close.

 

Perhaps they could add a comms command to ask the tanker to flash his lights!

 

Inseckt, I'll try and find some YouTube vids, thanks. EDIT: Most seem to be from the tanker using NVGs but have lots of flaring.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Kula66

[JG2_Miller]

Just tried it again. If you use TACAN until you're about 10 to 15 miles away and then turn on your TGP in A-G mode in WHOT, it should be no problem to find a pretty bright spot in the sky. Then set your TGP to Point on the tanker and turn on your NVG. Head for the little green symbol in your HUD. When you're 3 miles away you can see the tanker pretty good. Then simply close in and continue your refueling procedure. You could also enable Nose Illumination before you close in on the tanker if you prefer refueling without NVG. Then you only have to switch your NVG off when connected and the boom is nicely illuminated.

[Kula66]

Cheers, I tried with NVGs only but got too much flaring when close and can't see the nozzle ... perhaps I'll just have to play around with the various lighting options and see what works best.

[diveplane]

real life the tanker boom does have a spot lamp illuminating the refuel boom. but in black out situations nvgs are in use.

[Kula66]

diveplane, a lamp on the boom would seem sensible ... the whole setup seems unnecessarily dark!

 

Given that enemy fighters have radar, the requirement to do the whole thing in the dark seems unnecessary at 16,000'.

[Mosley]

Could you switch the tgp to ir and use the beam to line up the last bit with your nvg's? Or is that a no no? Would make an easier target i guess.

[bluepilot76]

Not tried this. Noticed yesterday that next to the refuelling door lever there is a fairly big rotary with stuff about refuelling lights. It was day so dont know if that would help. Im sure you should be able to do it without NVG though, I dont think they are always used in night flying?

[andysim]

you would think these flying gas stations would have forecourt lighing. Its a pain trying to get snacks too. And there is no ATM machine if you get short on money.

[Kula66]

Not tried this. Noticed yesterday that next to the refuelling door lever there is a fairly big rotary with stuff about refuelling lights.

 

Tried fiddling with this and it didn't seem to do much ...

 

Also, why does the tanker seem to call disconnect for no reason - sitting there, in the green and suddenly 'disconnect' - I thought in v1.10 that it was supposed to say 'transfer complete' - which I only had once!

Edited November 20, 2011 by Kula66

[sobek]

Tried fiddling with this and it didn't seem to do much ...

 

It's supposed to control fuel receptacle lighting.

[EtherealN]

Given that enemy fighters have radar, the requirement to do the whole thing in the dark seems unnecessary at 16,000'.

 

If the enemy has sense, they'll be operating under some sort of EMCON regime (Emission control) - which basically means they don't use their radars more than necessary since it advertises their presence. However, if they're flying in low for a sneaky patrol with radars off and see a bright shining light in the sky they might just go "lols", turn their radar on and have a missile in flight 3 seconds later, and if it's an active they might not even need to support it for many seconds beore pitbull before they can turn their radar off and reposition.

 

Similarly, there might be SHORAD assets with sufficient altitude reach sitting in forests or hills with their radars off (to make sure they don't get fed an ARM), but seeing something like that might prompt them to go for a quick shot.

 

Everything depends on the tactical and strategic situation. In FC2 I have used radar-off low-level ingresses several times to nail enemy tankers and AWACS with surprise shots. In reality I suspect my tactic wouldn't work (because the enemy patrols wouldn't be target-fixated on the simplest threat axis and would actually check their own terrain as well as they can as well), but I'm sure real fighter pilots have more refined analogues for various scenarios.

[SimFreak]

DCS doesn't simulate IR beacon which in reality is easy to spot and in most situations all of assets overhead have it on. Plus tanker tracks are know and controlling agency will direct you to tanker. Than you contact tanker and use tacan.

[Kula66]

Thanks guys,

I guess TACAN and NVGs will work, but up close the lighting of the end of the pipe seems to mess up NVGs and there is no way to light or see the top end ... its doable, but seems unrealistic.

 

EtherealN: As to having tankers low over possible enemy SHORADs, the AAR planner needs a courts martial! I would assume they stay over friendly land or sea and have a dedicated CAP - a heck of a lot of assets to risk unnecessarily.

 

SimFreak: I guess the answer is AWACS talking you on in the combat zone.

 

It would be good if you could request the tanker flash his lights or turn on a light over the boom ...

[Rainmaker]

If you wish to follow real life procedures then NVG's are a go up until you are in the precontact position.

 

3.20.6. Tanker Rejoin. NVGs may be worn for night tanker rejoins, but will be raised to the up and

stowed position or removed no later than the precontact position through the actual contact and AAR.

Goggles can be returned to the “on” position post AAR, while still with the tanker.

 

[rhino]

@Rainmaker

Thanks for the msg, you got it!

[sobek]

If you wish to follow real life procedures then NVG's are a go up until you are in the precontact position.

 

Is this an old procedure? IIRC paulrkiii said that they use the nvgs for the complete AAR procedure.

[Kula66]

Thanks Rainmaker. All we need now is some decent boom lighting from the tanker.

 

I thought in RL that NVGs reduced depth perception, probably fairly important when doing AAR ... perhaps just in the early ones but not really a problem on a 2D screen ;)

 

Anyone seen any videos (helmet cams?) from the receiving aircraft???

[Snoopy]

Is this an old procedure? IIRC paulrkiii said that they use the nvgs for the complete AAR procedure.

 

Information I got was directly from multiple pilots assigned to my reserve unit. BUT, AFI 11-2A-OA-10 Volume 3 states:

 

Tanker Rejoin. NVGs may be worn for night tanker rejoins, but will be raised to the up and stowed position or removed no later than the precontact position through the actual contact and AAR. Goggles can be returned to the “on” position post AAR, while still with the tanker.

[Rainmaker]

Yah for sure, what the manual states and what the pilots actually do could be two totally different things. That was the latest reg I could find, unless there is another one out there.

 

As a disclaimer though, I don't believe they are normally allowed to take off and land under gogs either but I have seen some interviews out there of the first guys into Bagram that said they did exactly that. So...

 

And don't think that I am trying to step on Paul's toes here. I didn't actually see a post from him on here directly concerning that. I don't personally have any hogs pilots to reference questions to, so the manuals are all I've got.