russia raised its alert level

[topol-m]

It's not a big deal guys, the negotiations on the European missile shield are ongoing. No big change will come out of the Russian president's statement. Still if there's one place I'd like to avoid in case of Nato-Russia nuclear war (not that such is likely to happen) it would be Poland :D

 

[Pilotasso]

Historically not the safest place indeed.

[Boberro]

Well, whole Europe would be nuked as same as whole East. Similar to the South :)

Russia has only nukes to show. Conventional army is not big deal - this is why they're screaming lol

Edited November 27, 2011 by Boberro

[moosefoot]

Just some quick input... Russian "powerlessness"?

 

No, Russia and NATO are not comparable because the bulk of NATO is the USA and nobody competes with the USA. USA tops the military expenditure of all other countries - combined. This makes the US able to put things into active service in numbers that other countries can just dream of, for example, but there are obviously many other massive implications of this humongous budget. Doctrines and other things are also way different, with the US being very focused on power projection (forward bases, CVBGs etc), something nobody else has really aspired to since the colonial era. The USSR/Russia, France and the UK has had some of this stuff going on, but only to an extent that remains pathetic in comparison with the US.

 

But we do not live in a world where military might and power projection capabilities rules everything anymore, thankfully. Let's hope we never have to again.

 

But... To address the "powerlessness".

 

First and foremost, since the USSR collapsed, they lost the popular label "superpower" and today they are generally regarded as a "great power" or "potential superpower". So less power, true. No power? False.

 

Economy is the major thing to be taken into consideration. The Russian Federation is an economic powerhouse, and ever increasingly so. It is de facto the largest country in the world with a good fraction of global natural resources available within its borders. Apart from the mineral industry, agriculture, forestry etc, the available hydrocarbon resources in Russia are only rivalled by the SA/UAE reserves and untapped resources in Canada. Energy is their thing, really, and those industries seem to grow exponentially. The fine-industrial and general technology sector has recovered by a lot since the break-up of the USSR and the 1990's crisis and it is also growing fast at present.

 

The European Union for example don't want to seriously risk making the RF an enemy, not because of fear of military retaliation but because Russian energy keeps Europe running. Gazprom alone is responsible for some 25% of European gas imports, and it's increasing by the year. Obviously this is a mutual deal, Russia do not want to make the EU an enemy because even though the export fraction of GDP has decreased (while the overall GDP has increased), exports are still very important and the EU is an important customer. Western companies are also investing heavily in Russia, money is flowing in and out.

 

The global implications of all these relationships are very serious and if they were devastated the end result would be hard to predict.

 

Furthermore, the Russian Federation is a member of the G8 - obviously somebody reckons their influence... Russia will probably join the World Trade Organization in a couple of weeks, providing a further boost to its economical potential and will probably lead to a huge surge in foreign investment as it provides a framework for more stable trade conditions.

 

Also, being a permanent member of the UNSC they undoubtedly have serious international diplomatic power as well, one of the most obvious manifestations of this is the classic veto right of course. :)

 

Even though open jargon can be harsh at times (like in the Medvedev speech) there is a lot going on behind closed doors. Others are definitely not considering the Russian Federation to be some kind of joke.

 

On the topic of military might they have a sizeable arsenal of ICBMs, SLBMs, intercontinental bombers and similar assets, only surpassed by the USA. One of the few countries in the world with the capability of striking a knock out punch globally. These capabilities have faced a decent growth recently as well, with older, obsolete systems being phased out and newer put in place. Looking at Russian recent defense expenditure trends and acquisition programmes, they are constantly reinforcing their power over their regular sphere of influence.

 

Now, remember the doctrine part I talked about - they don't want to play the US game, their priorities are different so you can't compare it straight. The RF ground forces aren't supposed to land a massive invasion on the US mainland. The RuAF isn't capable of dispatching 1500 air superiority fighters to the other side of the world to dominate the skies. But that's not their mission. The Russian Navy doesn't have 12 CVBGs and a total assload of LHCs and landing craft. They can't afford an US style approach at the moment, and they have no wish of doing so either, so it doesn't matter. Their task is to deal with threats in the immediate neighborhood, really.

 

That said, most of the forces are in a generally bad state at present but these issues are being rectified at a surprising pace. The RF armed forces will most definitely be modern, swift and efficient in 2025 if things continue on this track.

 

Sure, combined NATO forces would most definitely be able to win a tactical victory against the armed forces of the Russian Federation if a conflict were to take place today or in the near future. There is no doubt in my mind regarding that.

But a strategic victory? No. The world would be in ruins, both figuratively speaking (economically and regarding political stability and what not) and quite possibly more literally - just a heap of smoldering radioactive rubble.

 

Let's hope that the world will never have to experience such a clash.

 

So, NATO wants to place some missiles in Eastern Europe. Russia is opposed to this. When the Obama administration cancelled the EIS plans, people like Merkel, Brown and Sarkozy thought it was a good decision, citing improved relations with Russia as a positive result. The decision was obviously not taken just to be nice or anything, rather it was political pressure about the prospect of international diplomatic issues blossoming up that caused the cancellation. In other words, Russia was taken seriously. :smilewink: Then the US just recently came along with an all new set of plans, again met by heavy skepticism from Russian officials... This is where we are now.

 

They are going to work this out, Moscow wants the ABM system implementation to be transparent and that every aspect should be negotiated, they are not opposed to the idea per se. There will be compromises.

 

Cheers from Scandinavia,

 

moosefoot

Edited November 27, 2011 by moosefoot

[GGTharos]

You might not want to be in any big Russian city either ( ... or perhaps European :D )

 

It's not a big deal guys, the negotiations on the European missile shield are ongoing. No big change will come out of the Russian president's statement. Still if there's one place I'd like to avoid in case of Nato-Russia nuclear war (not that such is likely to happen) it would be Poland :D

[Mustang]

Ya know, i respect russia for it's military might and pride, always have done, but when i see a certain type of **** waving in forum posts it makes me wanna break pictures like this out :D

 

[RIPTIDE]

It's not a big deal guys, the negotiations on the European missile shield are ongoing. No big change will come out of the Russian president's statement. Still if there's one place I'd like to avoid in case of Nato-Russia nuclear war (not that such is likely to happen) it would be Poland :D

 

Ya... if there was war, those buildings there might be knocked down by the bombs.

 

 

:D

[topol-m]

Nice analysis Moosefoot, hopefully some biased "lol"ing and "hehe"ing people will read it and it will make them think with their heads next time they plan on unnecessary showing us their unconcealed hate towards Russia.

[aaron886]

This thread... well it sucks.

[Boberro]

Just some [...][/i]

 

You said few good arguments which I agree.

I noticed you mentioned military and economy - in military it is well known - conventional forces in quality and amount have no chance at least pooooooooor. Nothing new here. About rest we can discuss on PM (to not move thread too far from "army theme") if you'd like to.

[topol-m]

in military it is well known - conventional forces in quality and amount have no chance at least pooooooooor. Nothing new here.

 

Yeah right, WW2: German quality vs Soviet quantity; Vietnam war: US quality vs North Vietnamese quantity; Soviet war in Afghanistan: Soviet quality vs Mujahideen quantity. "No chance" he says, "pooor" he says :doh:

[Moa]

> Looking at Russian recent defense expenditure trends and acquisition programmes, they are constantly reinforcing their power over their regular sphere of influence.

 

Bah! This is just Russia is throwing another tantrum. This time it's because they won't get to threaten western Europe at will.

 

Russia is a great regional power and nothing more. It never has, and never will have global reach as the US has. Russia will have to spend more and more effort securing its territories in the east. Rattling its sabre in the european sphere does it no favors - in the same way North Korea's posturing is equally ridiculous, and very apparent to all except fans.

[topol-m]

You can hardly compare Russia to North Korea in both military or economic strength or in terms of political influence. These two countries are incomparable in pretty much everything.

[Moa]

You can hardly compare Russia to North Korea in both military or economic strength or in terms of political influence. These two countries are incomparable in pretty much everything.

 

My point was than the sabre rattling is the same - and has the same reaction from its intended targets (who don't think Russia is someone good to deal with).

[agrasyuk]

what i really liked about English side of the forum is that it focuses on sim discussion and politic topics are rarely touched. unlike the Russian side that 50% of time seems to plan how will they defend their motherland from imminent NATO invasion that just doesn't seem to come. and now this?

 

guys, they will have elections soon. since current governing party can't show to many achievements they play the patriotic card. historically this proved to be working. and looking at turmoil at many Russian boards it will be working this time as well.