Braking Distance Compared to Wingman

[159th_Viper]

No Assumption. You PERSONALLY will not let the idea flow. In your opinion its trivial. Several customers are saying it seems like a good idea. Don't belittle us. Without us there is no ED. Not the other way around....

 

Quit playing the victim here with allegations of belittlement. Providing a substantive argument above from 'it does not look realistic' would be a good start. You'd also do good to remember that I am not ED - I am merely a volunteer.

[bluepilot76]

The substantive argument would be that it doesnt stop in the same distance as the advanced A10C the player enjoys. Presumeably that performs as per specs.

 

I know that you are not ED, so it is dissappointing you allegedly have the power to forward our suggestion or not, based on your own opinion of what is important.

 

Actually I suspect real ED people take a greater interest in what is said on these forums than you indicated. If I was creating a product I would certainly like to know what the customers thought of it.

[159th_Viper]

Actually I suspect real ED people take a greater interest in what is said on these forums than you indicated....

 

I stated that the developers do not frequent the forums often - I did not state that they do not take an interest in what is said on these forums.

 

Honestly - I do not mind an intelligent discussion, but please do not misquote/misrepresent what I post. I just means that I have to yet again reply to iron out obvious misrepresentations.

[Shootist]

I skimmed the thread so I'm not sure it has been asked or not yet but... on the same note the winggie takes off and climbs faster than us. Even when I set him up with the exact same loadout. This simplified model has been, on several occasions, responsible for bringing us both down in flames after running into us. In the real world, wouldn't he keep his distance? Of course, he takes forever to catch up after takeoff so maybe the SFM is a good thing. Then again, those weird dives and climbs he does to gain height seem a little random.

[Shootist]

Viper, your so tense. Have a cup o tea, lad.

[Eddie]

The substantive argument would be that it doesnt stop in the same distance as the advanced A10C the player enjoys. Presumeably that performs as per specs.

 

Blue, while I agree that the AI FM is not as good as it could (should) be, the line has to be drawn somewhere. I think, based on your comments, that you believe the SFM to be more simplistic than it actually is. Making the adjustments you talk about wouldn't just be a case of changing one value a bit.

 

Now I'm not saying it'd be difficult from a programming standpoint, because to be honest I'm just an Air Force man and computer programming is witchcraft to me so I can only make 'educated guesses' when it comes to such things. But there is a lot more to even the smallest tweak to the sim than a little code change. Every change to the sim has to be weighed against everything else and a decision made on what is to be done, and what isn't based on importance, cost, available time and impact on other projects. When the Devs have done their thing every little change has to be tested and if there are problems the devs have to take another look, then tested again. All of this takes time.

 

Every time people such as yourself make a suggestion on these forums, you need to remember that there simply isn't enough time to do everything so in order for the tweak to the AI FM you are asking for to be made, someone else's request (be it another forums member, a tester, dev or producer) has to left out.

 

It's not that anyone is ignoring you (or anyone else), the ED team do listen to the community. Also remember that apart from a few exceptions, most of the ED team are Russian and many of them do not speak English so they don't (can't) see what is posted on the English forums. For that reason those of us on the test team highlight any sensible/important ideas & suggestions in the private area of the forums to save the few members of ED from having to work through thousands of posts. That is not to say that everything we suggest makes it into the sim, far from it in fact, or that the people like Wags don't read suggestions and take them on board.

 

Rest assured, your suggestion has been noted, but at the same time don't be offended if it doesn't make it into the sim.

 

 

I skimmed the thread so I'm not sure it has been asked or not yet but... on the same note the winggie takes off and climbs faster than us. Even when I set him up with the exact same loadout. This simplified model has been, on several occasions, responsible for bringing us both down in flames after running into us. In the real world, wouldn't he keep his distance? Of course, he takes forever to catch up after takeoff so maybe the SFM is a good thing. Then again, those weird dives and climbs he does to gain height seem a little random.

 

Yep, seen the same things myself on the few occasions I fly offline. I agree the AI FM is too simple, but for the reasons already outlined it's not possible to make everything perfect overnight. Improvements are being made and specific issues fixed where possible.

[ALDEGA]

Every change to the sim has to be weighed against everything else and a decision made on what is to be done, and what isn't based on importance, cost, available time and impact on other projects.

Obviously priorities need to be made and stuck too. We're not asking ED to drop what they're working on and handle this request ASAP, we're voicing our opinion about something which we'd like to see changed ... at some point in the future. We can't and don't expect ED to make an official statement regarding every single request or if/when they would implement a change. However, it would be nice to be able to discuss an idea without being met with consistently negative feedback.

 

Official feedback is welcome of course, if ED desires it so.

[bluepilot76]

Rest assured, your suggestion has been noted, but at the same time don't be offended if it doesn't make it into the sim.

 

Thanks Eddie, thats reassuring and a good post.

 

Hopefully one day noone can find a single fault remaining in the DCS series. Then we can all kick back around some virtual apron somewhere, crack open some beers and make fun of each others landings. "You can teach monkeys to land better than that dagadagadaga.."

 

Now in the mean time Im off to start learning Russian so I can bypass you lot and get straight to the ED Team with my great suggestions!

[bluepilot76]

This entire conversation has gone on and on in the weeds and no one has asked the most pertinent question and that is what weight you're landing at. Higher weight obviously mean longer landing distances and my A-10 pilot friends tell me it's not a plane known for its great brakes by design. In fact, they kinda suck.

 

Its a good point, I think the AI are stopping quicker regardless of stores etc. Im sure I usually land with less on board than him anyway. (if he makes it back at all...)

[y2kiah]

I like to practice formation landings by giving my wingy RTB, then joining up on him. I have to touch down with my outer wheel on the extreme edge of the pavement so I don't clip his wing when he catches the three wire and I shoot past him. Reducing AI braking to the same level as the player would be awesome. Even better, aerodynamic braking until around 80 kts, then apply brakes at a reasonable level.

[Ramstein]

This entire conversation has gone on and on in the weeds and no one has asked the most pertinent question and that is what weight you're landing at. Higher weight obviously mean longer landing distances and my A-10 pilot friends tell me it's not a plane known for its great brakes by design. In fact, they kinda suck.

 

While I am not a pilot, while I was in the USAF ad serviced most every jet in USAF and Nato.. except some exotic birds...

 

many A-10's came back in with full loads of Cluster bombs.. never once was I privy to any hot brake issues on HOGS... yet the F-4 Phantom almost always had hot brakes, cables, and nets to stop them... several other plane types had hot brakes but I just can't remember which... the large aircraft have such massive brakes, they didn't have many issues..

 

but in this A-10C sim, .. bluntly, the brakes suck... if my real Navy pilot friend was here he would probably brake out his calculator and give all kinds of calculations... I just use the word 'suck'.

 

I know that we dont dump fuel in here to lighten loads... but a full load of cluster bombs still has quite a bit of weight.. so, as in real life, you should be able to land with all bombs attached and still stop in time.. a half tank of fuel is reasonable..

 

Maybe a real A-10C pilot can chime in.. (h wait,, one already has..) ok, so it's back to A-10C pilot landing school for me..

 

btw, some friends who fly they want to take off in formation... I told them I don't want to because winding the engines up to 80% plus with the brakes on is not possible, as the brakes will not Hold that type of takeoff.. and then he ran into the back of me trying to do that..

:doh:

Edited December 4, 2011 by Ramstein

[sobek]

Actually I suspect real ED people take a greater interest in what is said on these forums than you indicated. If I was creating a product I would certainly like to know what the customers thought of it.

 

That is an important point. ED do certainly pay a LOT of interest to what people think about their product, but deducing that the forums are representative of what the whole userbase thinks is a grave misapprehension. That doesn't mean that things voiced on the forum go unheard, but don't expect the whole studio to be in commotion because ten people on the forum think that one specific issue has to be adressed. Proportionally, the forum crowd is minuscule.