1.1.1.1....Holy Crap!!!

[Smokin Hole]

So I read the change list and, errr well...hohum. Pretty underwhelming compared to 1.1.1.0. But why not try it out? So I put "Battle" on the turntable (Figuratively. "Battle" is the "Stairway to Heaven" of Black Shark quick missions). Now, the very first action I ever do in a running Black Shark is turn on the Flight Director. After three years, that little step is as automatic as breathing. Doing it is absolutely essential to controlled flight. Those who say otherwise are simply WRONG. So I hit Pause and press the joy combo that turns on the Flight Director. DARN!!! I'd forgotten that the patch also dumps the joystick modifier. Forget that. Just try your bes---- But wait! It flies great! It flys like a big helicopter! This...is....HUGE! (Well "Huge" in the sim-geek-who-can't-get-enough sense of the term)

 

Nicely done ED. SALUTE! HATS! CHAPEAUX! and the rest.

 

^^^^

 

OK, so that was my overly excited, slightly alcohol impaired initial reaction. To translate, autopilot trim works really well with FFB now. It was mentioned in the changelist but not given then fanfare I think it properly deserves.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Smokin Hole

[Spetz]

:thumbup:

[WildBillKelsoe]

So I read the change list and, errr well...hohum. Pretty underwhelming compared to 1.1.1.0. But why not try it out? So I put "Battle" on the turntable (Figuratively. "Battle" is the "Stairway to Heaven" of Black Shark quick missions). Now, the very first action I ever do in a running Black Shark is turn on the Flight Director. After three years, that little step is as automatic as breathing. Doing it is absolutely essential to controlled flight. Those who say otherwise are simply WRONG. So I hit Pause and press the joy combo that turns on the Flight Director. DARN!!! I'd forgotten that the patch also dumps the joystick modifier. Forget that. Just try your bes---- But wait! It flies great! It flys like a big helicopter! This...is....HUGE! (Well "Huge" in the sim-geek-who-can't-get-enough sense of the term)

 

Nicely done ED. SALUTE! HATS! CHAPEAUX! and the rest.

 

^^^^

 

OK, so that was my overly excited, slightly alcohol impaired initial reaction. To translate, autopilot trim works really well with FFB now. It was mentioned in the changelist but not given then fanfare I think it properly deserves.

 

I got one word for you mister:

 

 

TABERNACLE!!!!

[EtherealN]

Now, the very first action I ever do in a running Black Shark is turn on the Flight Director. After three years, that little step is as automatic as breathing. Doing it is absolutely essential to controlled flight. Those who say otherwise are simply WRONG.

 

You know what I'll say to this, so I'll just mention that except for a few times to specifically test it, I haven't used Flight Director. Ever. :P

[AlphaOneSix]

You know what I'll say to this, so I'll just mention that except for a few times to specifically test it, I haven't used Flight Director. Ever. :P

 

Ditto.

[Smokin Hole]

It was meant as a joke referencing the many discussions we've had about this since BS1 came out. I always knew that using the FD was frowned upon. But my real flying experience tells me that you have not just the right, but the responsibility, to disconnect automation when it gets in the way. Outside of Autohover and Turn On Target, the AP always got in the way of my enjoyment of the game. Now, it no longer does.

[EtherealN]

But my real flying experience tells me that you have not just the right, but the responsibility, to disconnect automation when it gets in the way.

 

Except that real Ka-50 pilots do not disconnect things purely on personal preference, they train specifically to make use of the system. (Which of course includes selecting FD when appropriate.) But they are not, for example, allowed to disable the AP channels just because they feel it gets in their way - rather, if these automations were to get in the way for them, this would be a sign that they're not yet fully qualified to operate the aircraft. :) (Emergency procedures is a different thing, of course.)

 

All of that said, things do of course change a lot when we are talking about a desktop simulator, and it really is a case of "do what works for you". My only worry really is that to me it sort of feels like selling oneself short - being annoyed at one thing and removing it instead of learning to work with it, when a while of training would make it cease being an obstruction. But of course, that is again a case of "do what works for you". :) I admit that in the limited time I've had with CloD, I've not used the "complex engine management" options since that simulator, to me, isn't really a "study sim" in how I approach it: I play it to kill stuff and do some dakka-dakka with my beloved Hurricane, not really to simulate the actual flying of a 'cane.

 

So yeah, I get your point, but I felt I had to respond since I don't want newbies stumbling on the thread getting the wrong idea. :P

[Smokin Hole]

Understood. To be clear, I never flew with any AP channels off (not intentionally anyway). Only FD on/axis dampening off.

[GGTharos]

According to what Kamov pilots have said to ED at least (and probably military, but I don't recall the exact sources), the FD is almost never used at all. Not in normal flight or combat.

 

Anyway, they also happen to be flying the real deal which may differ in behaviour from what's simulated, though you're virtually flying the most realistic replica of a Ka-50 available on the civilian market. The AP system should be operating correctly, but issues with input devices, lack of understanding of procedures and reasoning on the part of the player and other factors might make things not work quite as in RL.

[159th_Viper]

Only FD on/axis dampening off.

 

Dampening is always on, irrespective of FD mode or not.

[Nate--IRL--]

Oh look! Another Autopilot debate thread :P

 

Nate

[159th_Viper]

Oh look! Another Autopilot and SAS debate thread

 

There - fixed it for you!

 

It's like Mickey and Mallory.........:P

[AlphaOneSix]

I just have an itchy feeling that a couple of things in the Ka-50 autopilot are either not modeled correctly, or not modeled at all. I know that opens up a bit of a can of worms, since I have no proof, and my knowledge of the Mi-17/Mi-24 autopilot system has little to no bearing, and could possibly be giving me the wrong idea about that Ka-50 autopilot system completely...but I still have that itchy feeling.

 

On the FD note, I feel that the only reason to use FD mode is when the Route mode is inoperative for some reason, so instead of the flight computer giving commands directly to the flight control system, it gives commands to the pilot (through visual cues on the HUD).

[GGTharos]

You may well be correct - there could be some subtle interactions that need to be there and aren't (if you recall, there was a 'keep turn going if it's a standard rate turn or more instead of returning to heading' mode implemented that wasn't there originally in the game, but is part of the real autopilot) and there may be more of that sort of thing.

 

On the other hand, it is also possible that there's just a real issue with rudders (for me, inadvertent poor trim of rudders tends to be a killer), as well as a couple of other behaviours like the 'bunt' after using the trimmer.

 

I just have an itchy feeling that a couple of things in the Ka-50 autopilot are either not modeled correctly, or not modeled at all. I know that opens up a bit of a can of worms, since I have no proof, and my knowledge of the Mi-17/Mi-24 autopilot system has little to no bearing, and could possibly be giving me the wrong idea about that Ka-50 autopilot system completely...but I still have that itchy feeling.

[Smokin Hole]

May this thread go wherever it goes. But I have already started whiny autopilot threads. This thread was meant to complement ED on their effort to better implement trim on FFB sticks. By doing so they have made the need to use the FD, for this player at least, a little less necessary. And, A16, for what it's worth, I agree with you. But my knowledge is less than most of you and is based on talking to corporate helicopter guys about how autopilot and SAS works on their western machines. Kamov built a very unique single-seat attack helicopter and there is good reason to accept the possibility of an automation philosophy that is unique to the Ka50..