CCRP question

[Gun Jam]

Hello

 

Ive been playing the training mission on General purpose bombing. I have some questions about CCRP mode.

 

It appears that even though the two long lines on the hud (I think they are called steering and azimuth) are nearly perfectly aligned and through center of the reticule pipper the bomb usually misses by a 100 to 300 feet because apparently the whole above mess isnt aligned with the tail on the SPI that i set.

 

The problem is when flying level I cant see the tail on the SPI to align it with the steering and azimuth lines because it is outside (below) the HUD window.

 

OR when the steering and azimuth lines are aligned and inline with the pipper dot does that mean its also inline with the SPI and the bomb (air drag in this case) is missing for another reason?

 

 

Thanks

 

-Gun

[RobbySpike]

Hm, use TGP to get a precise SPI, check if the target is moving (thats of course bad for dumb bombs), the rest should be down to your height, wind, the plane banking and stuff. I always use CCIP while diving into the target, but it trades risk for accuracy

Edited January 17, 2012 by RobbySpike

[Eddie]

.....the bomb usually misses by a 100 to 300 feet.....

 

Without a track it's hard to say if you're doing anything wrong, although it doesn't sound like it from your post.

 

As far as the part of your post above, bombs landing as close as you say is definately considered a hit IRL. Depending on the delivery method you're using anything from within 100ft all the way out to 500ft is considered a hit. CCRP (low or medium altitude toss (LAT/MAT)) attacks are by their very nature less accurate than dive bomb attacks (DB, HADB, HARB).

 

While it's true that you are unlikely to kill anything in the sim by putting a string of Mk-82s 500ft from a target, that's more due to the limitations of the weapon/damage model (this is a game after all), but the aircraft systems and the weapons are just as accurate (or not as the case may be) as they are in reality.

[pcalvert]

Hi Gun Jam,

 

Don't know if you do this already but try lasing the target while you set SPI (TMS up long) because the TGP doesn't 'see' your target it actually looks through it. Lasing the target while you set the SPI will ensure that the TGP is locked to your actual target.

[roob]

If you really want to hit something spot on with a general purpose bomb you pretty much has to use CCIP, and that will probably "miss" too.

[KLR Rico]

Ain't that the truth... I'm so spoiled by guided bombs I get pretty irritated with the ineffectiveness of dumb bombs on armor, anything but a direct hit and the tank drives away. Even cluster bombs (CBU-97 aside...) don't always do the trick. I really hate seeing bomblets rain all over a column and half the vehicles leave unharmed.

[Gun Jam]

Hi Gun Jam,

 

Don't know if you do this already but try lasing the target while you set SPI (TMS up long) because the TGP doesn't 'see' your target it actually looks through it. Lasing the target while you set the SPI will ensure that the TGP is locked to your actual target.

 

Thats a good point. Is there a way lase a target without a targeting pod (which is not provided in this mission)?

 

another question. Without the use of the targeting pod is there a more precise way to set a SPI...for example lining the CCRP pipper up with the target and making that a SPI somehow? I use the keyboard to slew the SPI on the hud and its not super smooth. One quick press and its too far above or below the target.

 

Based on the replies it sounds like as long as the two lines on the HUD are lined up and through the pipper then they would also extend into the SPI and my results are typical for a high drag dumb bomb or a dumb bomb in general using CCRP mode.

 

Thanks for your helpful replies

 

-Gun

[EtherealN]

Even cluster bombs (CBU-97 aside...) don't always do the trick.

 

Well, that's not really a surprise since those other cluster bombs employed by the A-10C are intended for soft targets and infantry. :P

[roob]

another question. Without the use of the targeting pod is there a more precise way to set a SPI...for example lining the CCRP pipper up with the target and making that a SPI somehow? I use the keyboard to slew the SPI on the hud and its not super smooth. One quick press and its too far above or below the target.

 

I'm not sure if this only goes for the TGP slew rate but at the STAT page (left MFCD) if you press OSB-1 (Next page) and then select THRTL with OSB-19 you can then change the slew by decreasing the number (if you want 1, press 1 on UFC) and then click on OSB-3 or 4 (can't remember, but where it says slew rate).

[KLR Rico]

Well, that's not really a surprise since those other cluster bombs employed by the A-10C are intended for soft targets and infantry. :P

 

 

Oooohhhh.... That explains it. I just go with whatever the default loadouts are in the campaign (Georgian Hammer). For example, last night I had a couple BMP-2 formations to take out. The default was 4x Mavs, 2x MK-82AIR, and 2x CBU-87's. The mavs were burned on the AA threats, the CBU's were largely ineffective, and all I ever get with MK-82AIR is holes in my plane from getting too close to the target. :D

 

After expending the default load I went back to rearm and picked up CBU-97's and more mavs. I had much better luck with that.

 

That said, is the default loadout for any given mission realistic? I was using it for the sake of realism; "CO says this is what I get on my plane, this is what I'll use." but if a real world pilot gets to choose, then maybe I'll start changing my strategy.

[Gun Jam]

Question about SPI point: Once its set using HUD and not a targeting pod (for example on the tread of a stationary tank where it meets the ground) Does it stay put or will it drift off target as the plane turns due to accumulating error in I guess a gyro or whatever it uses to "know" where the SPI is set.

 

After making a turn (180) and coming back to the SPI form the other direction it doesnt look like the SPI is where I had it set. Is that because of gyro drift or because of terrain which is in this case a runway and looks pretty flat.

[roob]

Unless you laser the SPI, it's never really where you first thought you set it when looking at it from a different angle (and not always even when you lased it). But I have no idea if it drifts or not.

[BlueRidgeDx]

Question about SPI point:

 

Gun Jam,

 

The answer to your question depends on how you set the SPI in the first place. You said "set using the HUD", which makes me think you might have had the HUD as SOI, designated a target visually using the TDC, then made the TDC SPI. Is that right?

 

If so, just know that the TDC is not very accurate, and designation errors are often apparent when viewing the target area from another direction. This is normal behavior.

 

On the other hand, if you had the TGP as SOI, you should enter Point Track if possible and momentarily lase the target before setting as SPI. If you don't lase, the TGP will look through the target to a point on the ground "long" of your target. Combined with rolling terrain, this can cause a significant error.

 

If you did all of that, and you find that after masking the TGP (it goes to INR) the crosshairs aren't exactly where you left them, then thats normal too. If the TGP can't actually see the target, it tries to maintain the same LOS using inertial data only. With a lot of maneuvering, or extended duration in INR, the crosshairs will drift.

 

Edited to add: The SPI itself should never move. It is a expressed as a set of geographic coordinates that can not be changed unless you or the IFFCC/CICU command a change. The only caveat to this is when you have the IFFCC pipper set as the SPI source, in which case, the SPI is continuously updated as the pipper tracks across the ground.

Edited January 17, 2012 by BlueRidgeDx

[WildBillKelsoe]

Hello

 

Ive been playing the training mission on General purpose bombing. I have some questions about CCRP mode.

 

It appears that even though the two long lines on the hud (I think they are called steering and azimuth) are nearly perfectly aligned and through center of the reticule pipper the bomb usually misses by a 100 to 300 feet because apparently the whole above mess isnt aligned with the tail on the SPI that i set.

 

The problem is when flying level I cant see the tail on the SPI to align it with the steering and azimuth lines because it is outside (below) the HUD window.

 

OR when the steering and azimuth lines are aligned and inline with the pipper dot does that mean its also inline with the SPI and the bomb (air drag in this case) is missing for another reason?

 

 

Thanks

 

-Gun

 

Check

 

To see the limit under the HUD, you have to raise the chair. develop a down angle in excess of 30, and speed in excess of 230. Also, the closer to the ground you are, the more likely that at slow speeds, you'll have the pipper.

[FreeFall]

 

On the other hand, if you had the TGP as SOI, you should enter Point Track if possible and momentarily lase the target before setting as SPI. If you don't lase, the TGP will look through the target to a point on the ground "long" of your target. Combined with rolling terrain, this can cause a significant error.

 

 

Lasing is good. The only problem is that you have to be rather close to the target. Something like 8 nm or closer. Am I right?

[lubey]

Well you also have to be much closer than that to the target to drop bombs on it using CCRP anyway...