Network (split)

[GGTharos]

Moderation notice: this thread is the result of a split from another wishlist thread.

 

I think your network connection sucks. Plenty of people fly formation just fine, as well as aerial refueling in MP. Lag != bug. The first suspect in lag is your network connection. Lag over the internet will never be eliminated.

 

When i see the number of bug in multiplayer actually (so many lag, its impossible to try a formation flight without risk a imaginary collision or a lot of disconnection) i can't imagine what it will be with a dual seat aircraft.

Edited April 2, 2012 by EtherealN
Adding moderation notice

[Demongornot]

I think your network connection sucks. Plenty of people fly formation just fine, as well as aerial refueling in MP. Lag != bug. The first suspect in lag is your network connection. Lag over the internet will never be eliminated.

 

The bug are also here, mainly disconnection, aircraft spawn into another (free slot aircraft must be already on the parking and not spawn, that will be more realistic and avoid this bug).

And my connection don't cause any problem for EVERY other game/software, i play BF3 without see any lag problem or disconnection, same for a lot of FPS game...

Game where the position have less than a centimeter of precision in the map, same for Arma 2 and Same for Orbiter with MP addons who the full solar system are here and the ship of the other player don't get any problem like that.

 

Maybe little lag will never be eliminated but its only in aircraft simulation that i see bug like that.

I prefer a simulator where the aircraft follow a logical route before have a confirmed position with the other player and who can spawn from one position to another some time than actual where we see the aircraft make ground aerobatic maneuver or kill us by a nonexistent collision...

The only thing one aircraft and do on the ground its follow a trajectory, well limit aircraft for only follow a FLUID trajectory on the ground and not see it can go under ground sometime...

Same for the fact than an aircraft can't cross the map in a single second, its not a UFO, its supposed to be an A10C (i never have see aircraft who can do it anyways), just script it, i don't get why (except position rectification under CONFIRMED POSITION -> and not every time) and aircraft can do thing over the possibility of this flight model...

I prefer have a ½ of delay or more than actual multiplayer MAYBE in direct but with this list of bug, and another people with nice connection speed together have see them have a lag...

Its not the fault of my connection, the multiplayer simple must be totally rework like a lot of other things anyways...

[joey45]

I have very little lag when I fly and that's on a sqd night.

[sobek]

I prefer a simulator where the aircraft follow a logical route before have a confirmed position

 

And how will you calculate that logical route? Please, i'd like you to lay the algorithm out for us. What is even more interesting is how you will get the player to follow that logical route so as to not cause any discrepancies and warping.

[EtherealN]

And my connection don't cause any problem for EVERY other game/software, i play BF3 without see any lag problem or disconnection, same for a lot of FPS game...

 

Do you play BF3 on the same servers that you play DCS on?

Well of course not. Thus, connection issues may be different. I've had cases where I had huge packet loss to moscow on one connection, but the other connected fine. The only application that had any trouble was the one I connected to moscow with, so obviously I started thinking it was a problem with that application. But switching to another connection solved the issue, and a look at the traceroute did show that it was indeed an ISP problem.

 

And for reference, I fly formation and aerial refueling in DCS and FC2 with a cellular connection (3G/UMTS), usually without any problems at all. But if I connect to the "wrong" server, it all goes to hell.

 

The internet is a complicated beast. :)

[Demongornot]

And how will you calculate that logical route? Please, i'd like you to lay the algorithm out for us. What is even more interesting is how you will get the player to follow that logical route so as to not cause any discrepancies and warping.

@Sobek&EtherealN

 

Just keep do the same thing than before loose position information, if the player aircraft turn, the aircraft that we see must turn too and if we loose position simply keep the aircraft turning at the same direction and, the aircraft keep doing the same thing than before loosing information, when the position will be updated the aircraft will spawn from the last know route to the updated route, but that will not be a problem compare to actual when for a little packet loss the aircraft will ALWAYS (not matter if the player use autopilot and follow a perfect trajectory) moving and everywhere and make a totally unplayable game, for people who don't have lag its not will be a problem, that not will change anything except for people who have lag who will have a better quality of the product...

And with my simple solution for aircraft who simply follow a right trajectory no one will see anything and for a situation where the player turn if he keep the same turn the difference before and after the position loss will be imperceptible, anyways the position loss its less than 1 seconds, the only thing to do its to assuring that the aircraft will only follow route from confirmed position.

Anyways why passing by Moscow ?

The master server mainly due to the fact that a lot of people living far from it must be here ONLY for force people to be connected with a legal account but nothing else, the information between two player MUST be P2P + Host to P (and not Host to P only).

Impossible to connect to multiplayer and to maintain a MP connection without Master server ok, but i don't see any advantage to use the Master Server for MP information between player, and with P2P+H2P we will be able to using VOIP controlled by radio function in the simulator, best than TS or Skype where we need to leave the game or return under windows for connecting with people that we don't know and to force someone to create a TS server with a real and nice possibility to using radio com + radio encrypting...

 

Imagine both of my idea, only confirmed position (for people who will lag that just will increase delay of position but that's all) + logical aircraft performance limitation + server only for check account :

 

Perfect multiplayer !...

[GGTharos]

The network code works fine, when things break down on the network, it breaks down. That's all there is to it.

 

Its not the fault of my connection

[EtherealN]

And with my simple solution

 

...this "simple solution" is already implemented in all the simulators.

 

Anyways why passing by Moscow ?

 

I needed something that was on a server in Moscow.

 

The master server mainly due to the fact that a lot of people living far from it must be here ONLY for force people to be connected with a legal account but nothing else, the information between two player MUST be P2P + Host to P (and not Host to P only).

 

Master server is not involved in your gameplay. Master server authenticates your account and puts your browser into contact with the servers. Your gameplay traffic does not go through the Master server.

 

Impossible to connect to multiplayer and to maintain a MP connection without Master server ok, but i don't see any advantage to use the Master Server for MP information between player

 

Which is why it isn't involved. Now you are doing a Don Quixote. ;)

 

and with P2P+H2P we will be able to using VOIP controlled by radio function in the simulator

 

There are already plugins for TS3 that do this.

 

Imagine both of my idea [...] Perfect multiplayer !...

 

Apparently not, since both of your ideas are things that ED implemented ~15 years ago, and apparently you're not happy anyway. ;)

Seriously, one of these days you'll have to accept that people who do software development in general, and game/simulator development in specific, and have done so for a decade or more, just might know a little bit more about this kind of thing that someone like yourself who has admitted to not having experience in the relevant disciplines. The guys at ED know perfectly well what they're doing. :)

Edited April 2, 2012 by EtherealN

[Demongornot]

The network code works fine, when things break down on the network, it breaks down. That's all there is to it.

 

I know that the problem don't come from my connection cause two people with nice connection between them can have this problem and in all other game i play i don't lag, i have already play with a lot of different country, one day in BF3 i was surprise to find a server on the Antarctic, if i can play online with other game with people who come from various country and don't get lag and with the same country (or with people in my country) i lag in DCS, i'm sorry but the problem can only come from DCS, i think the network code are written like the AI in fact...

 

 

...this "simple solution" is already implemented in all the simulators.

 

Maybe but :

1: Its written really bad and finally don't work cause the lag problem still here, its a fact

2: its not the same solution that i have say, its a different who don't stop lag

 

 

I needed something that was on a server in Moscow.

 

Master server is not involved in your gameplay. Master server authenticates your account and puts your browser into contact with the servers. Your gameplay traffic does not go through the Master server.

 

Which is why it isn't involved. Now you are doing a Don Quixote. ;)

 

Sorry my mistake i have think you have say that the information pass through the Master Server at Moscow...:doh:

 

 

There are already plugins for TS3 that do this.

 

Yeah but like i have say its a lot of disadvantage to using that :

 

1 I don't see a lot of people who using TARS, i have use it only one time with my squadron and only for testing it in fact

2 that need that someone have a TS server

3 that need to back to windows for connect and several computer/DCS crash when we try to back to windows (not my case but i think about who do)

4 its more binding and after the fact that we must not confuse different channel we have too and prey that we don't have a lot of troll who don't play DCS but who use the same TS server for another game and who decide to come troll us

5 its less realistic and a VOIP its the only way to using the radio encrypting panel, that want mean more realistic feature, and if a network code capable without problem to transmit voice are implemented, maybe with the same way better position transition will be too...

 

 

Apparently not, since both of your ideas are things that ED implemented ~15 years ago, and apparently you're not happy anyway. ;)

Seriously, one of these days you'll have to accept that people who do software development in general, and game/simulator development in specific, and have done so for a decade or more, just might know a little bit more about this kind of thing that someone like yourself who has admitted to not having experience in the relevant disciplines. The guys at ED know perfectly well what they're doing. :)

 

If my anti-lag idea are implemented, why i lag ?...

In this case its not really a lag but a bug of position of other player and i'm far to be the only one who have this problem...

I'm not need any experience to understand that in a simulator or in an arcade game FPS game or any other game/software a position/attitude and basic animation transition are the same and that if for the same connection speed in ALL OTHER that not lag or have a bug of position the problem come for sure of the software itself and not from my connection.

And the total proof that its not due to fact that in a simulator we have a huge map :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9q2-tL-KqU

Orbiter who show FULL solar system including every planet and a lot of moons in this video the player position are perfect and it as community addon !!! that want mean that its not a the original designer or a people with 15 year of experience who have created it, and its work better than DCS internet network...

The problem its that DCS its FULL OF PROBLEMS, if only we have 2 or 3 problem like Orbiter (for example) or like RC aircraft simulator where we have almost no problem (i never have see one) i just will make a bug report, but the problem its due to the number of problems, but, mistake, things who are forget and missing feature and more problem, i can only try to make change things cause DCS its a really nice simulator, but we can have really better in all aspect...

[nomdeplume]

There could definitely be some improvements made server-side e.g. rejecting impossible updates from clients. It's pretty common for planes and helos to be twitching around the place in physically impossible ways. Even if we assume the network connection is terrible, planes should at least behave like planes.

 

I replayed a track (recorded by the server) to take screenshots, and when one of the guys was positioning on the runway for takeoff he suddenly juts 90 degrees up and stands on his tail. After a few seconds of that, the aircraft suddenly reverts back to normal position.

 

My personal favourite though was starting up on the ramp and having the guy next to me slide sideways into my plane and explode, leaving half his wing on the ground next to me and a message saying I'd killed him... before warping back to his original position (still dead, though). Even a fairly permissive filter should be able to stop those kinds of impossible events from happening.

[sobek]

There could definitely be some improvements made server-side e.g. rejecting impossible updates from clients.

 

That's not as easy as you think and will most likely cause a lot of overhead for the netcode, which would result in...lag. :P Besides, if you have an extended period with packet loss, the extrapolated and the actual flight route might differ significantly. How do you wan't to make up for that discrepancy without warping?

 

1: Its written really bad and finally don't work cause the lag problem still here, its a fact

 

Demongornot, i am not sure if you know how you come across, but your repeated statements of something being coded really bad are starting to get obnoxious.

 

Write a simple application that is lag free over a bad connection and i'm sure you'll earn enough to coaster off of that for the rest of your life and everybody on this thread in opposition to you will STFU. Until then, you can't possibly expect anybody to take you seriously, since honestly, so far all your statements have led me and others to believe that you have not even seen the business end of an editor.

 

If my anti-lag idea are implemented, why i lag ?...

 

Because your idea is not anti-lag, it's anti-collision during lag at best. A simulation is strictly causal, you cannot tell where the player will end up before you have gotten the data, it's simply not possible. Beople don't make perfectly circled turns or fly absolutely straight, the discrepancy is what can be seen as warping when the position is updated.

 

Besides, in my 4 years of playing DCS MP, i have never had these severe warping problems that you describe. I suspect that either you are constantly playing on the one chinese server or you are playing over WIFI. That would explain the amounts of packet loss. Or your connection sucks.

 

Either way, you are doing something wrong, the rest of us is flying without warping around.

Edited April 2, 2012 by sobek

[nomdeplume]

That's not as easy as you think and will most likely cause a lot of overhead for the netcode, which would result in...lag. :P Besides, if you have an extended period with packet loss, the extrapolated and the actual flight route might differ significantly. How do you wan't to make up for that discrepancy without warping?

 

I'm not worried about the warping, that's expected and I don't see any way around that.

 

What I think could be improved would be the events that never occurred for any player somehow making it into the server's view of the world. That guy sitting on the ramp next to me starting his jet never slid 10 metres to his left and into me. There's no way his client actually sent data to the server saying it was sliding sideways across the tarmac; nor did the guy taking off have his client send information to the server that it was now balancing delicately on its tail.

 

So either the server received data that the client didn't actually send and should've ignored it (checksums?) but didn't; or it did reject the bad info and the server tried to predict the actions and came up with something which was not only manifestly not what the client did, but also physically impossible for the client to do.

[Bushmanni]

Thats a good idea to filter out the impossible. Maybe it could be done by extrapolating the client aircrafts motion with AI flightmodel instead of direct extrapolation of the current motion. I have no idea if the FM can be used in this way but the FM itself shouldn't cause that much more CPU load to be impossible to implement.

[EtherealN]

I know that the problem don't come from my connection cause two people with nice connection between them can have this problem and in all other game i play i don't lag, i have already play with a lot of different country, one day in BF3 i was surprise to find a server on the Antarctic, if i can play online with other game with people who come from various country and don't get lag and with the same country (or with people in my country) i lag in DCS, i'm sorry but the problem can only come from DCS, i think the network code are written like the AI in fact...

 

You need to carefully re-read what has already been said to you. This argument has already been responded to. :)

 

Maybe but :

1: Its written really bad and finally don't work cause the lag problem still here, its a fact

2: its not the same solution that i have say, its a different who don't stop lag

 

Your "solution" does not "stop lag". There is no such thing as "stopping" lag. You just don't understand the nature of the internet. "Lag" is not some thing that you just solve, it's a complex beast with several constituent characteristics - anything from simple time delays (which is what "lag" is - you ALWAYS have "lag". That's what "ping" is, you know - the lagtime caused by sending information packets from you, to the server, and back to you). Then there's other fun things to consider such at packetloss, the protocol involved and the effects it has and so on and so forth.

 

Sorry my mistake i have think you have say that the information pass through the Master Server at Moscow...:doh:

 

No, I gave you an example of how a problem can arise with a specific application only but still be caused not by that application (or the server the application is trying to connect), but by the ISP. Here's the scenario:

 

1) I need to contact and download stuff from that server.

2) Connections stall, end up slow, and generally mess everything up.

3) Literally EVERYTHING else works fine and dandy, I can play games, watch streamed HD-TV, etcetera etcetera. Everything works perfectly.

4) I accuse the program used to communicate with that server for download to be malfunctioning, because everything else works, right, so it CANNOT be my internet connection, right?

5) I then test a different connection, and suddenly it works. Hmmm... I test with the previous connection again just to confirm - now it doesn't work. I do a traceroute and check up on the ISP infrastructure, and I find that yup - it was the ISP all along!

 

That is to say: a problem only arising in a specific online game does NOT mean there's anything wrong with that game. It can still be your connection even if there's only one application that suffers.

 

1 I don't see a lot of people who using TARS, i have use it only one time with my squadron and only for testing it in fact

 

Well, a lot of the "random people" online don't even use their radios at all. So what do you expect? You think you are going to get marvellous co-operation and tactics on Airquake servers? :P

 

2 that need that someone have a TS server

 

Which is easier than getting a DCS server... You can run it on your home PC.

 

3 that need to back to windows for connect and several computer/DCS crash when we try to back to windows (not my case but i think about who do)

 

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you are saying.

 

4 its more binding and after the fact that we must not confuse different channel we have too and prey that we don't have a lot of troll who don't play DCS but who use the same TS server for another game and who decide to come troll us

 

So don't allow them access to that set of channels, or get better friends that don't troll you.

 

5 its less realistic and a VOIP its the only way to using the radio encrypting panel, that want mean more realistic feature, and if a network code capable without problem to transmit voice are implemented, maybe with the same way better position transition will be too...

 

A better point transistion? What is that?

Less realistic than what?

 

What you need to understand as well is that all features cost money to develop. This is not a hobby project, this is serious business where a mistake in planning means a lot of people will have trouble giving food and clothes to their children. Features must pay for themselves. Eagle Dynamics has a huge internal wish list and believe me when I say you've not added anything to that list. Those few ideas of yours that haven't already been implemented a decade ago have been on that list for quite a while already. Again: this is people that do this for a living. ;)

 

If my anti-lag idea are implemented, why i lag ?...

 

Because there is no such thing as completely removing lag unless you are playing both game sessions on the same computer.

 

In this case its not really a lag but a bug of position of other player and i'm far to be the only one who have this problem...

 

No, it's actually lag and packetloss.

For once, try to listen to what you are being told?

 

I'm not need any experience to understand that in a simulator or in an arcade game FPS game or any other game/software a position/attitude and basic animation transition are the same and that if for the same connection speed in ALL OTHER that not lag or have a bug of position the problem come for sure of the software itself and not from my connection.

 

But Demongornot, please understand that stuff like this is exactly why we are telling you that you don't understand these things. IT IS NOT THE SAME.

A "bug of position problem" is caused by UDP packet loss, which in turn is caused by YOUR INTERNET CONNECTION.

When we tell you something, we mean it. Stop being obstinate and start readin what you get told. Please.

 

And the total proof that its not due to fact that in a simulator we have a huge map :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9q2-tL-KqU

Orbiter who show FULL solar system including every planet and a lot of moons in this video the player position are perfect and it as community addon !!! that want mean that its not a the original designer or a people with 15 year of experience who have created it, and its work better than DCS internet network...

 

All you're doing here is that you are once again showing that you do not understand the differences between what Orbiter is doing and what DCS is doing. In case you haven't noticed, they're fairly different.

 

It does not take an education in software engineering to understand the difference, and in fact you have already been told exactly what is different several times in your old threads. Please go back to re-read them, and stop ignoring what people are telling you.

 

The problem its that DCS its FULL OF PROBLEMS

 

No, the problem is that you refuse to reads what people tell you and just continue to live in your own universe.

[EtherealN]

On "filtering out the impossible" here's two things that could be done:

 

1) Switch all game traffic to TCP to make packet loss have less effect. Introduces more lag and makes it eat more bandwidth.

2) Make each "status update" or whatever you want to call it contain complete and full information on everything. Introduces more lag and makes it eat more bandwidth.

 

EDIT: Obviously there might also be other things that can be done - I'm not the programmer and I wouldn't follow the DCS netcode even if I had source access. So not saying everything that could be done will necessarily introduce more lag and bandwidth costs, but everything I can think of without first getting access to (and learning to follow :D ) the relevant source code does carry such costs.

Edited April 2, 2012 by EtherealN

[Frostiken]

If you didn't know this thread was taken from another thread, it reads with Tharos telling everyone that their internet connection is shit :D

[EtherealN]

Hahah, good point. I'll put in a clarification at the top. :P

 

Though to be precise, it doesn't even have to be the specific user's connection. It can be backbone congestion somewhere on the route to the server, an switch doing something funky somewhere along the route, etcetera etcetera. I have had cases where I can fly with no problem when server is GG's computer on the other side of the world, but I had issues when trying a server in germany... Turned out my ISP's hookup to germany was being broken, but (I assume) the intercontinental link went via the UK so it was not affected. The internets is complicated. :D

Edited April 2, 2012 by EtherealN

[sorcer3r]

If you didn't know this thread was taken from another thread, it reads with Tharos telling everyone that their internet connection is shit :D

 

especially since patch 1.1.1.0 all our i-net connections became worse ;)

[Jona33]

especially since patch 1.1.1.0 all our i-net connections became worse ;)

 

That hasn't created lag. I've noticed more crashes MP but that may be due to the fact it was around 1.1.1.0 we often got 6/7 people running on a server.

[sobek]

That hasn't created lag.

 

Exactly. The MP crashes are undesputably there in 1.1.1.1, but lag/warping is something entirely different.

[sorcer3r]

Exactly. The MP crashes are undesputably there in 1.1.1.1, but lag/warping is something entirely different.

 

Yes, maybe. But we didnt noticed warping before 1.1.1.0/1. And there are also lot of "server ping time outs".

[EtherealN]

Server ping timeout is something you can get from the server crashing - that is, any crash error on the server can give the client a "server ping timeout" without lag being even a symptom. It's just that your client does not know anything other than that the server stopped responding. It has no way to differentiate between the server "lagging out" and the server crashing (or, for that matter, a firewall deciding to block traffic). These will all look the same to the client.

 

Similarly, temporary hangs on the client can cause the client to cease communicating to the server for a while, which the server would see as lag (because it doesn't know anything other than that the client stopped communicating) with a warp as a result. Again though, the error need not be anything related to the netcode, and "fixes" to the netcode would not solve it.

 

There is a difference between a symptom and a cause, correlation does not (necessarily) equal causation.

[sorcer3r]

hm a situation was:

 

About 5-6 Players. During the mission only 1 client got a ping time out. No time outs for the other clients and no server crash.

It was really strange because the server was running in the LAN of the client which got the time out. :huh:

[Demongornot]

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

4 screenshots of different network test with two who test the packet lost and the result : 0%, and not only in my country.

 

now you can still say what you want but the fact is here : i have a good connection and i DON'T lag in all game i play, ONLY in DCS i see lag, sorry but i don't have pay every game creator for make an exception and according all theirs game with my connection, the problem are not on my side, and like i have already say i have several time play with people all around the world without lag but with DCS i have lag with people who living in France (and who have really better connection than mine)

Anyways before the end of this year i will have the optic fiber...

 

 

 

And yes DCS have a lot of problems, one of the biggest and the worst its the AI who are extremely stupid and CAN'T do a flight without do stupid thing, have a problem or anything like that, for example yesterday i have to a flight for testing several addons and the flare texture that i have modification, i don't have do extreme hard flight but the wingman incapable to follow me simply troll and spam me with a lot of " 2 Rejoin, 2 Rejoin, 2 Rejoin, 2 Rejoin, i was bored i have order him to RTB, he said 5 more time 2 Rejoin and after he say : 2 Copy RTB, i was happy that its finish to spam me but just after say me that he RTB he strike back with a lot of 2 Rejoin, i have give him again the same order and same thing, i was boring i have shut off my radio and shot him with a Sindewinder...

Same thing for the carrier bug who are suposed to be corrected, sorry but i still see aircraft who bug completly on the carrier.

We have the totally non-optimized graphic engine who cause bug and for ugly graphic suck all power of a big computer (i can't believe that people with I7 Sandy Bridge and the last graphic card (HD7970 and GTX 680) can have so low FPS and are forced to reduce graphic effect, sorry but view distance are a little excuse cause several solution can permit to show FAR AWAY (more than in DCS) without need big power and can be combined with FPS graphic engine and the result is : perfect graphic from shot distance (10->15Km, we DON'T NEED more for 3D details) and medium+long range (from 10->15 to infinite) with tweak like 2D evolutive sphere of horizon (and shot photorealistic details with evolutive color, i know you think that photorealistic are a commercial argument and its not realistic due to things like shadows taken with the picture and other difference but its 1000 better than actual TOTALLY false DCS's color).

We have too the sound problem, when the game have several sound in the same time or loud sound my 7.1 headphone (Logitech G930 who NEVER !!! bug in other game, application, music software and all other thing) make me hear buggy sound.

The fact that the simulator are based to CPU power + don't design for using multicore (perfect stupid couple)

The fact that the SIMULATOR are more optimized for external view than internal view only...

I need to continue ?

 

Sorry but its not me who cause all this problem.

 

 

I don't care about how other game are different with theirs multiplayer system, its design for share player information llike where the player is, what is this atitude (look down, up, turn and other) and other information like wish weapon, gesture, skin and other, same for DCS position of the aircraft, attitude of the aircraft, engine power and control surface position and head basic position and after that we have only information who only need to be updated and not to be continuously transmitted like here the TGP look, if the ECM are ON or OFF, landing gear, Flaps, lights, radio frequency and ID of communication (if he ask for engine start up, approach, refuel or other) its must be ONLY information who need to be transmitted ONLY when its updated and not continuously, if its already the case its great but that not explain why a simple position + attitude can't be correctly send and if its not the case its not another proof that its not correctly done...

 

 

If an integrated version of TARS have a cost, are you think that the guy who have create TARS plugin have pay for ? i don't think so...

Its less realistic cause its need that everyone on the server want to back to windows (alt+tab) without crash and connect to TS of the server and VOIP can be the first way to implement voice command (just say F1, F2 F3 and other, that will be a nice begin) for example the up position of the micro switch permit to enabled voice command and keep the forward, backward and down permit to talk on the VOIP and just shot click show the menu that we will command with voice command without spam other people with F1, F2, F3 and other things, that can be too the first way to implement player ATC and mission control center.

And in the list of people who will connected to the TS server what when half don't use TARS ?...

And i know its easy to create a TS server, but its not anyone who want to do it, and all modern game with multiplayer integrated VOIP (including simulator like Rise of Flight for example)

 

 

Just for information, my friend don't troll me, but in a unknow TS server, unknow people can troll us, with integrated VOIP we can just mute a player without need to back to windows desktop, and risk crash of the plane or simple game crash...

 

 

And i know that a lot of people finally don't use this simulator like a simulator but like an arcade game, and i think if DCS where more design for be a simulator and not an open software with a lot of arcade part that will force people to using it like a simulator, in real what happen if a pilot start up, take off and don't do the assigned mission ? he will simply intercepted and maybe shoot down cause aircraft steal its a reality, if DCS was realistic in case of several fratricide or things that the pilot must never do an order will be given for every fighter who are available for intercepting it and find why he don't answer at the radio...

My dream its to do the same type of co-op flight with unknown random people on the server

And i'm sure a lot of people want too to do it, but first without VOIP its not easy and with the lag problem its worst.

So yes if the simulator was more realistic more people will use it like a simulator and not like an arcade game, but with the giant list of missing feature (and bug) its not for today...

 

 

The position problem still here and with people from my country or from the other side of the planet, when i rejoin or when i host...

My anti position problem its simple :

Why an aircraft on the parking in a flat ground with both engine cut off without wind have to moving ?...

IMPOSSIBLE, so when a corrupted position transition come and are supposed to make impossible thing to the aircraft, its simply blocked, the aircraft CAN'T without collision with engine stop on a flat ground without any wind accelerate at more than 50G for move instantaneously 5m ahead of this last know position, its simple and really logical...

An aircraft can't be teleport at 1Km (or more) from his actual position, so, when the position are updated for do impossible thing like that the aircraft DON'T must do it before that its confirmed (cause the actual position can be false and the updated can be simply true).

You know what must be the best thing finally ?

Don't see the direct player position but a bot like who PILOT with the aircraft limitation for follow where the player are supposed to be, i have say a BOT LIKE not a real bot of course, but not a direct transition of position, just a follow of this direct transition...

 

What will be the result ?

rather than see an aircraft who will instantaneously be teleport ahead or back of this real position we just will see an aircraft who do a lot of engine power correction, but that all, the aircraft CAN'T look like a lag even if that lag really hard, the position will just be more fluid and according to the flight model limitation, and that will be a good occasion for using a third CPU core, for manage multiplayer (like we actually using SIM+ Sound, the best will be to using 4 core, Sim + Sound engine + Multiplayer + AI)

And the only way for an aircraft to be teleport its only in the case of the actual position are totally false and the real are far away, but its the aircraft are just 10m of the real player position it just will using the flight model for reach the real position with maybe the possibility to overclock engine power if the real position are ahead and that the player use full throttle power.

 

I'm sure this idea are not implemented, and i'm sure it can work and open new door (like save CPU power and improve radically the multiplayer with new possibility due to dedicated CPU core)...

and both solution can be perfect :

 

1_ Automatic position correction according to aircraft performance (if the worst case if a corrupted information coming we just will see the player aircraft begin to turn for reach his updated position and turn again for finally back to the real position) (for position + attitude + surface control and head position and only updated when changing : TGP, Landing Gear, Flaps, Light and other thing who can still at the same state for long time before changing).

 

2_ trajectory more fluid, like if we using the mission editor for create a WPT route and in a route we just decide to be crazy and in a radius of 10m we put 10 WPT from WPT 5 to 15 and the 16 are at the normal trajectory, when we will approach of the WPT 5 after passing the 4 nothing happen, but when we reach the WPT 5 we don't will need to follow all 10 crazy WPT, cause its really close the aircraft will automatically switch to WPT 16...Just do the same thing for MP, when a crazy trajectory are detected, just correcting it by follow the more logical (the more right) trajectory.

 

3_ CPU core dedicated to calculate both of this feature (cause that will need power) and maybe cause a little delay for people who lag, but rather than see lag player just will follow the aircraft with 1 or 2 seconds of delay, and we can another thing with this new dedicated CPU core, a little more advanced AI flight model (AI itself who using a dedicated CPU core + another when we play SP mission) for see AI spin after try to pull high AOA in a dogfight or in an attempt to evade a missile or anything like that, and that can permit to calculate aircraft turbulence, cause its a IMPORTANT thing who missing actually, the beautiful XB-70 for example are crashed cause another aircraft who flying close to his tail was sucked in the vortex and collide with, its not a minor feature, that can cause crash (imagine a fighter at mach 1.2 at low altitude, hard to reach more than mach 1.2 at sea level but possible, imagine if this aircraft just pass under an helicopter, the helicopter will simply crash, same thing if when we try to land in an A10 a big KC-135 who will for any reason cross our trajectory will simply make us crash due to low speed during landing...

 

4_ anticollision system who are just a verification of position of both aircraft by transmit again and check several time position of both aircraft when theirs are supposed to collide, that will cause a 1 or 2 second delay between the collision and the effect of this collision maybe but avoid false collision (who happen me a lot of time) and that will happen only when a detection are detected and if this feature can permit to avoid collision who are never supposed to happen i think its a must have...

Edited April 2, 2012 by Demongornot

[SNAFU]

Yes, maybe. But we didnt noticed warping before 1.1.1.0/1. And there are also lot of "server ping time outs".

 

I almost said "good to read", didn´t play DCS for a long time now, but started getting to know the A-10C in the recent days. I was really surprised by the mulitplayer performance, or not existing performance. Barely a puplic server in central europe online, and if I want to fly with a friend, it is impossible due to warping around, ping outs, CTDs and hung games.

 

First thought that my system would cause this all, but my friend faced similar issues and now I read here, that more are epxeriencing this? I remember far better online experience with DCS.