Avoidance Tactics against enemy A10s

[Daniel M]

TLDR: Just wondering if anyone has any tips to avoid getting hit by human a10s.

 

In west Philadelphia born and raised

On the playground is where I spent most of my days

Chillin out, maxin, relaxing all cool,

And all shooting some b-ball outside of the school

When a couple of guys who were up to no good

Started making trouble in my neighborhood

 

 

I got my revenge though (completely on purpose :))

 

Sorry for not cropping

 

 

So, I know we are SOL if we are spotted. But does anyone have any tips for not getting spotted? I feel like these guys were finding me way to fast, but I have no idea what systems they can utilize. I was below 50p almost the entire flight.

 

I did notice, at least on trk replay, that if you zoom out (like you are 15k above) the shadow of the chopper really stands out against the ground. Specifically against non-green fields.

 

Just wondering if anyone has any tips?

[213]

they use vehicle view and padlock to track you

[Daniel M]

Ah, that's weak sauce. Is that disable-able server side?

[EtherealN]

Regarding altitude: being low doesn't help you in not getting spotted by an A-10. Where is an A-10 normally looking with his TGP? That's right - the ground. ;)

 

Use terrain and NOE flying to mask you. You are the airborne equivalent of a ghillie-suited infiltrator.

 

I'm not as enthusiastic as 213 about accusing padlocks. Servers can control view options, yes.

[Daniel M]

Appreciated. I guess I need to spend more time planning flight path before heading out.

[GGTharos]

There's also the matter of A-10's defending their own peeps. If you start shooting, they'll see things blowing up, and eventually they'll spot you.

 

If you do the same thing that most Ka-50 peeps do (arrive at target, see a bunch of vehicles, start carefully picking them off) you're spending loads of time in one place, making yourself an excellent GBU-12 target ( or a good old carpet bombing, or any other technique of doom you'd like to come up with).

The other thing that Ka-50 peeps do (and most flight sim pilots in general) is not looking. All they do is sit there and stare at the hud, which ends up being bad news since they won't notice anything else happening around them. Instead, it appears that watching a Vikhr flying in for a bunch of seconds is of paramount importance.

 

That TGP on the A-10 has a nice infra-red camera and also happens to have dedicated air to air mode. It could potentially make finding a Ka-50 (or any other aircraft) relatively easy if you know where to look, and, if you happen to know where your friendly forces are, you probably know where to look.

 

As for people using F5 and padlock, that is possible. Try using it yourself in the server you're flying to see if it's available.

Edited April 8, 2012 by GGTharos

[Daniel M]

I'm def guilty of not looking outside the cockpit enough.

 

This particular area that I was operating in was pretty flat, and the only concealment were trees. I assume the graphic engine would have me hidden behind those trees, say while s/he was tgp searching? Regardless of the a10's pilots tree draw distance? (In this instance I had not fired a shot yet, and was 15km away from closest wingman)

[Grimes]

Did you try to move in with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air? :D

 

Yeah the Ka-50 is kinda screwed if an A-10C ever spots it. It seems in those screenshots there isn't much you can use to hide yourself behind in terms of terrain or city buildings. Aside from what has already been said, it is probably best to shoot and scoot often whenever you are in a PvP environment. And it kinda depends on whether or not the server has kill messages or externals on. If kill messages are on, each time you destroy something is a reminder to move to a different location cause chances are someone will be looking for those fires.

[Bushmanni]

Flying or hovering above forests is a good way to camouflage yourself as the trees cover the shadow and generate more than enough clutter to make the helicopter hard to spot. Hiding among buildings isn't as effective as over forests but it's still better than staying in the open. If you have been spotted and the aircraft overflies you change position so that he has to look harder to find you again. And if you have to announce your existence in some way like killing targets you should plan ahead how are you going to stay hidden after the fixed wing bullies come looking for you. Flying and landing inside a hangar, hovering under bridge, landing between buildings, just flying to somewhere else for a while or something like that will make it harder for them to find you.

[GGTharos]

That will work, but not against F5 or padlock. And obviously not if the A-10 is doing its TGP ops from 10000' or higher as it should.

 

I'm def guilty of not looking outside the cockpit enough.

 

This particular area that I was operating in was pretty flat, and the only concealment were trees. I assume the graphic engine would have me hidden behind those trees, say while s/he was tgp searching? Regardless of the a10's pilots tree draw distance? (In this instance I had not fired a shot yet, and was 15km away from closest wingman)

[EtherealN]

One key to effective Ka-50 operation is not to just "use what you get" as far as cover and so on goes. What you need to do is control the terrain - that is, if it's a flatland with not much of anything to protect you, don't go there. Find somewhere that does have some terrain to work with and operate from there in stead. If no such place is available at all, don't go "oh well" and take the crap option - in this case you'll want to make sure that you have some backup and support; a friendly fix-wing or two operating in the area would be nice, optimally a pointy-nose (though that has to wait a while unfortunately). Essentially, if there's a single MiG-29 around, he can both tell you when that A-10 is coming, he can also make the A-10 run away extremely easily (and if the A-10 doesn't run away, the A-10 is dead. :P )

 

Some of that isn't entirely applicable right now of course since we're waiting for compatiblity, but in the future, with FC playables thrown into the mix, you'll find it a bit easier as long as you communicate. Until then, I'd suggest enlisting help from some friendly A-10's if the mission in question allows both sides to operate them.

[159th_Viper]

Remember - In a Kamov you are effectively in an IFV and not an aircraft.

 

Tailor your strategy accordingly and your survival-percentage should increase. That said, without air-support you are effectively a target-drone. I usually load up fuel tanks and 25ML's, outflank, snipe and run like hell back where I came from. Loitering and plinking targets will get you killed more often than not.

[Panzertard]

Or rather simplified; Air superiority.

If you fighter jets need to go back to refuel, you'll alway be at risk.

Only with total air superority you'll be safe from another jet.

 

If you don't have total control over the airspace;

To minimize the risk while ingressing / egressing - fly slow.

Below 130 kph is higly recommended.

Slower will make you harder to pick up (which is not real btw - but its a builtin factor in the DCS/FC series).

Aspect is also a factor.

 

However, you're never safe from a AI nor real pilot if they have identified your whereabouts.

Moving out of the area is then the next trick - but you need to do it while they are not tracking you, neither by sensors nor visually.

 

You're still at risk of getting pummeled before you can get out.

[Daniel M]

Slower will make you harder to pick up (which is not real btw - but its a builtin factor in the .

 

Are you referring to ai, or that humans pick up movement with their eyes? Or both? :pilotfly:

[EtherealN]

Radar. The slower you are, the lower the doppler return, and under 130kph you're essentially invisible to airborne radar. (You've notched the radar.) This isn't strictly speaking realistic (even a hovering helicopter should give enough doppler return from the rotor blades that it shines like a beacon), but is a concession to game balancing since Ka-50 pilots would be extremely vulnerable against the pointy-noses otherwise.

 

This isn't really applicable in Black Shark 2 since the FC series isn't integrated yet and the A-10 doesn't have a radar. But it's a good habit to pick up.

[Speed]

I'm not as enthusiastic as 213 about accusing padlocks. Servers can control view options, yes.

 

No, they can't, unfortunately. Server settings are overrode by local client's F5 nearest aircraft view setting.

 

Not sure to what extent A-10s in MP use this cheat, but it sure taints the whole experience. I would recommend simply not flying against human opponents until this is fixed.

[Nate--IRL--]

No, they can't, unfortunately. Server settings are overrode by local client's F5 nearest aircraft view setting.

 

Not sure to what extent A-10s in MP use this cheat, but it sure taints the whole experience. I would recommend simply not flying against human opponents until this is fixed.

 

I never knew that, that's a pretty big flaw.

 

Just to be clear - if the server has external views off - the player can still access the F5 Player to enemy camera?

 

Nate

[Speed]

I never knew that, that's a pretty big flaw.

 

Just to be clear - if the server has external views off - the player can still access the F5 Player to enemy camera?

 

Nate

 

Yes, if the player's setting has F5 nearest aircraft view enabled, it doesn't matter what the mission or server settings are. The player who has it enabled in his single player GUI settings will still be able to use it, even when external views are otherwise completely disabled.

 

Anyway, I think this was reported like a year ago, I actually saw a topic or reply by Panzertard about it.

 

Obviously, fixing it by FC3 release needs to be a priority, as this problem really kills player-vs-player combat.

 

OK, Here are two previous threads reporting the problem:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=82639

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=75704

 

I last tried this out in 1.1.1.1 I believe, but not 100% sure about that. It may have been late 1.1.1.0. Could be worth a try in the current version. Who knows, maybe the last time I tested this WAS in 1.1.1.0, and the problem WAS stealth-fixed in 1.1.1.1, and I just haven't tried it since then. I doubt it though. The comments in the thread I started about it make me think not.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Speed

[Nate--IRL--]

Thanks speed I'll look into it.

 

Nate

[159th_Viper]

I never knew that, that's a pretty big flaw.

 

Just to be clear - if the server has external views off - the player can still access the F5 Player to enemy camera?

 

Nate

 

Nate - already reported: 0017811

[Nate--IRL--]

Nate - already reported: 0017811

 

LOL - and it was me who assigned it - I'd forgotten completely.

 

Nate

[159th_Viper]

Tee hee hee yes. You even wrapped 'you-know-who' over the knuckles for not including a track :D

[Xxx]

To just say a word about the OP question....

 

I know this was addressed a while ago and I dont want to impune anyone's work. Black Shark is (IMHO) the definitive helo battlefield sim. ( I have U Tube vids to prove my affection:thumbup:)

 

However......In the RW the KA 50 appears to have the capability to carry AAM's.

 

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/ka-50.htm

 

and

 

http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/ka-50.php

 

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/aa-11.htm

 

The latter link clearly states the KA 50 and KA 52 as platforms for the Archer.

 

"Developed by the Vympel state-sector engineering and design bureau, the R-7EE is designed for close-quarters aerial combat. Vympel specialists have developed a way of ensuring that the missile system can be fitted to virtually any type of aircraft. It can be fitted to older aircraft, which feature heavily in third-world countries' air forces. "

 

Platforms"Su-27, Su-33, Su-34, Su-35, Su-37, MiG-29, MiG-31, MiG-33, Yak-141, Ka-50, Ka-52"

 

 

Note, there are mentions of both the Igla (not so good) and the AA-11 Archer ( extreemly good:thumbup: ) AAM's.

 

Now, if you would like to put a stop to any troublesome Hog drivers, I would ask that a little consideration be given to a patch providing the additional aforementioned AAM's? Please.....:music_whistling:

 

Cheers

[GGTharos]

Since it does not carry them in RL, and it seems the Ka-50 will never be equipped with AAMs before it is withdrawn from service, no.

 

Now, if you would like to put a stop to any troublesome Hog drivers, I would ask that a little consideration be given to a patch providing the additional aforementioned AAM's? Please.....:music_whistling:

[Speed]

Oh no, not again...