Der_Fred Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Here the DCS version. From what I can see in your video is taht you apply rudder slightly before elevator. Where as I apply rudder and elevator at the same time (I think there is a delay in rudder as I'm using a key setting - but the results should be the same). https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqaxniobwttz2q3/DCS%20P51%20FlickRoll.f4v Just for comparison here's an IL2 version, which is what essentially should be happening. https://www.dropbox.com/s/gfuqrbyrynck5bb/IL2%20P51%20FlickRoll.f4v There's just too much of a delay in DCS, as I'm applying extreme controls IOW being 'ham-fisted' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 As in meaning that you think that IL-2 got it right? OK, just prove that to be true and I'm sure everyone's happy. The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der_Fred Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Have you flown a real aircraft.. any fixed wing aircraft for that matter, and tried this maneuver ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Whether I have or not is irrelevant, because you presented a claim and the burden of proof is thus on you. But I ask again because the last time you didn't bother to answer at all: do you have your controller axes sensitivies set to neutral? And mind you, you may well be right in everything you claim. Now just go ahead and prove it and I'm sure everyone's happy, no? The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 And oh yeah, accelerated stalls in IL-2 were scripted. As I remember it, at some point all AC always departed to left in an accelerated stall regardless of which way you were banked... and THIS, according to you, is superior to how DCS models it? The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBillKelsoe Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Ouch, sorry for being such a smartass but that hurts just too much. ;) Temperature in a gas can be explained as the mean kinetic energy of particles if you subtract coordinated particle movement, not the amount of particles "rubbing" against each other. Collisions between particles are ideal (unless they form a chemical bond or a different element or energy is dissipated in the form of radiation), that means kinetic energy is not transformed. The reason why a gas gets hotter when you compress it is that in the process of compression, you increase the mean kinetic energy of particles. Heat and temperature are different things, btw. I guess I should retake my elementary science classes :D AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der_Fred Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Do yourself a favour and go to your local flying club and ask someone to take you up on a demo flight. One doesn't have to be extreme with the controls, but the application effects are very noticeable. They'll probably not advise or will refuse to do such a thing, because of the inherent dangers of such a move. Wrt IL2 as we all know for a 13yr old sim, still has the basic FMs right. Maybe not the finer details, which is why I use it as an example. Just because you seem to have a dislike for IL2 doesn't mean that it's absolutely wrong - for example - where are the hi-G/high -AOA wing vapour trails in DCS - scripted (LUA) or not ? :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 From what I can see in your video.... That is why I provided you with a track illustrating 3 different scenarios, each with the same outcome as shown in the vid. Had you watched the track and brought up the Controls Indicator, you would have seen that rudder and elevator input happen simultaneously, or as close thereto as makes no difference. And yes, I sincerely hope your axis are all set to Linear, otherwise I am away to claim a refund for time spent on this thread....... Confirmation would be nice. Linear? Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 where are the hi-G/high -AOA wing vapour trails in DCS Man, you're starting to sound like a broken record. AS YOU'VE BEEN TOLD ALREADY ELSEWHERE, they vanished with a version upgrade a while ago and a bug report concerning this has (to my knowledge at least) been filed. And this is the third time I ask already: are your controllers set up linear, yes or no? The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 still has the basic FMs right The "right" FM of the La-5FN (IIRC, some La type anyway, it's been years since I last flew IL-2) couldn't do accelerated stalls at all. No matter how hard you yanked the stick back, the bugger just didn't depart. And this IYO is having the basic FMs right??? Phleeze... The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 And no, I'm not going to do myself a "favour" and go anywhere, because it's still YOU who has to present tangible evidence of the DCS Mustang being incorrectly modelled. And so far I've seen none... And oh yeah, for the fourth time just to remind you again: how're your controllers set up, linear or curved? You still haven't answered this - why? The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der_Fred Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Yawn... Yes..Axis are linear. You can 'accelerate' stall any IL2 a/c (the last time I tried) a matter of fact, you can flick roll any of them.. even the bombers if you tried hard enough :) In the videos I put up, I don't know if you noticed that I had set throttles to zero so as to minimise any torque or propwash effects. Next trick question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedaway Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Yawn... Yes..Axis are linear. You can 'accelerate' stall any IL2 a/c (the last time I tried) a matter of fact, you can flick roll any of them.. even the bombers if you tried hard enough :) In the videos I put up, I don't know if you noticed that I had set throttles to zero so as to minimise any torque or propwash effects. Next trick question? How does IL2 manage the physics? How does DCS-P-51d manage the physics? Happy flying:pilotfly: DCS Wish: Turbulences affecting surrounding aircraft... [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3P - Intel Core i5 6600K - 16Gb RAM DDR4-2133 - Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 G1 Gaming - 8 Go - 2 x SSD Crucial MX300 - 750 Go RAID0 - Screens: HP OMEN 32'' 2560x1440 + Oculus Rift CV1 - Win 10 - 64bits - TM WARTHOG #889 - Saitek Pro Rudder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmaruda Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Stop it with IL-2 already. It's a descent classic old sim, with good physics for the time it was released. However it's not a study sim and has some flaws like the fact that it does not model surface pressure and the resistance the pilot faces when pulling on the stick properly. IRL it would require epic strength to pull on the stick hard enough to stall a plane diving at 600kph. In IL-2 the virtual stick travels as fast as the joystick and control surfaces travel with it. Maybe with FFB it's different, but flying with a normal joystick is equivalent to having hydraulic assistance of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) .....any IL2 a/c..... *yawn* Seriously? Comparing DCS to IL-2 for the purposes of bug reporting? There endeth my participation :) Edited March 28, 2013 by 159th_Viper Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VH-Rock Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 *yawn* Seriously? Comparing DCS to IL-2 for the purposes of bug reporting? There endeth my participation :) If this conversation continues, There endeth the existence of common sense in the known universe. Virtual Horsemen - Right Wing (P-51) - 2008... Virtual Ultimate Fighters - Lead (P-47) - 2020... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der_Fred Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 First and foremost - do no think any game/sim (DCS or IL2 for that matter) is 'bible' no matter what the devs 'preach' DCS devs, AFAIK, have had no input into this topic - and will probably not get into such an argument. If any of the nay-sayers had the remotest RL PROP flight experience, they might have something different to say. There you go ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der_Fred Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Sorry - Correction to above statement Any any person had any RL PROP experience, they might have something different to say. Done and said :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 .....DCS devs, AFAIK, have had no input into this topic..... And rightly so. Think of us that had input as the 'nonsense filters'. And yes, yet again confirming that the flight model was intensively scrutinised by RL P-51 pilots. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der_Fred Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Originally Posted by Der_Fred .....DCS devs, AFAIK, have had no input into this topic..... And rightly so. Think of us that had input as the 'nonsense filters'. And yes, yet again confirming that the flight model was intensively scrutinised by RL P-51 pilots. I hope so :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der_Fred Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 but I doubt it... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der_Fred Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 you're not going to get a RL P51 pilot doing what I've suggested... Tell me when it happens.. and tell me the analytical results :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der_Fred Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I don't want the official template. I want the 'Cowboy'.. the person who knows how to fly. Not the general geriatric moron... Get my drift :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Get my drift :) No. A wee voice tells me that's a blessing. To attempt a conclusion to this particular matter you brought up and as clearly illustrated in the track provided, nothing seems to be amiss at present. As such I'll move right along. Should you have something more substantial in corroboration of a perceived bug than what you already provided then please speak up with said documentation so we can revisit if necessary. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Not the general geriatric moron... You, good sir, would be well advised to wind your neck in a wee bit. Conducting yourself the way you do makes the chance of a dev talking to you approach zero quite rapidly. Besides, the pilots that were involved in the creation of the flight model do not take part in this community as far as i am aware. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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