How to Transition from 200 knots to Hover? I Need a Squad!

[ErichVon]

I need some sources as reference as well as any comment(s) anyone wants to offer. I am familiar with the transitioning tutorial from this source:

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/video/bs2-training/

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/video/bs2-training/basic-flight-procedures-part-2/#transition-maneuvers

 

I do not use the Central Position Trimmer Mode. I fly Ka-50 Sim mode only.

 

I can get to the combat area. My combat skills are non-existent currently.

 

(I need a squad to fly with so I can get help with the Ka-50.

I can do Multiplayer to either the 1.02 update or the latest BS2.0, 1.1.1.1 . I have the original download, the updates since, and the latest update. I live in NY State. I would prefer ping rates 200 and below. My DSL is slow, but that will change in September when I get cable Internet. My 2nd generation i7 CPU runs at 3.9GHz, Windows 7 Pro, 64-bit.)

Edited April 18, 2012 by ErichVon

[159th_Viper]

...How to Transition from 200 knots to Hover?

 

Provided you are trimmed correctly, just lower the collective slightly, hard right rudder (and I mean stand on the rudder), right-cyclic and bring her around in a 360 degree turn. When you come out of the turn on the heading you commenced the turn at, depending on how you executed the turn, you should be close to Hover speed. Re-Trim for a hover.

 

Herewith track recorded with BS2 1.1.1.1 where I commence a right-turn at approx 300km/h, hard right rudder/right cyclic, level out and trim for a hover. Very likely not the only method out there, but one I find works pretty well if you are necessitated to 'Jam on the Anchors in a Hurry' so to speak.

 

Track: Quick-Stop.trk

[ErichVon]

Hi Viper,

 

I will give that a try.

 

Thanks for the reply and the track.

 

(Edit, an hour later):

 

I watched the track you supplied several times: inside the cockpit: HUD; separately the flight stick cyclic, rudder pedals, and collective; and outside view. It looks to me what your .trk file shows is you are going from about 300 km/h to about 40 km/h, then zero at hover, all done by manual control inputs and the trimmer button in about two minutes from start of the example. Is this true? You are not using any automatic hover controls?

 

This will take some practice.

 

(Edit, a few hours later):

 

That worked very good. I was on your open server to FC2, flew to target area and actually got it to hover for quite awhile, just above the trees.

 

I will be asking more stupid questions as I progress, stay tuned.

 

Thank you.

Edited April 19, 2012 by ErichVon

[roob]

Provided you are trimmed correctly, just lower the collective slightly, hard right rudder (and I mean stand on the rudder), right-cyclic and bring her around in a 360 degree turn. When you come out of the turn on the heading you commenced the turn at, depending on how you executed the turn, you should be close to Hover speed. Re-Trim for a hover.

 

Herewith track recorded with BS2 1.1.1.1 where I commence a right-turn at approx 300km/h, hard right rudder/right cyclic, level out and trim for a hover. Very likely not the only method out there, but one I find works pretty well if you are necessitated to 'Jam on the Anchors in a Hurry' so to speak.

 

Track: [ATTACH]64897[/ATTACH]

 

That was a fast stop! I always thought the rotors would break if one did such a manouver... Probably because of all those times they've snapped when simply trimming :cry:

[159th_Viper]

HIt looks to me what your .trk file shows is you are going from about 300 km/h to about 40 km/h, then zero at hover, all done by manual control inputs and the trimmer button in about two minutes from start of the example. Is this true? You are not using any automatic hover controls?

 

Yeah, that's about right. No hover controls, although normally I would transition to Auto-Hover after I've established a Hover to free up my hands if I was going to engage a target.

 

Glad you got it right - as you say, all it takes is practice. Granted, my track is a bit extreme, but the principle is sound: Just get her in a tight turn and the turn itself will bleed speed with no appreciable gain in distance.

 

No bother asking questions. All the resident Rotor-Heads will not hesitate answering. :)

[ZQuickSilverZ]

My technique is not so extreme. The first thing I do is kill the collective then pull back. Killing the collective keeps altitude gain at a minimum. When my helo starts to lose altitude I give it more collective until it levels out. It is even more effective if you pull back then trim back (force feedback users know what I am talking about for sure).

 

Viper I wrote this long ordeal about why I did not agree with that technique (It was late at night and I wanted to go to bed so I did not watch the video. I only used the text to try to get a mental picture of what you were doing.). After seeing it in action though that seems like it would be pretty effective. Maybe I should adopt it.

 

Note, auto hover is a great thing. However, if you see a missile coming at you TURN IT OFF FAST. The reason is your trying to side slip and the auto hover is trying to keep you in one spot. You get killed fighting your own auto hover.

 

War Hawks (the squad I belong to) will train you. We have many unique training aids. We also use multi user interactive classrooms. When you play a mission with us it would be similar to an actual real life pilot briefing (not a pasted document and a bunch of text like you get with online servers). If you had questions you would be able to interact with the briefing (often with several documents) in real time. When you play with us it is organized. You have a clear picture of the overall goal and a clear picture of what other teams are doing. There is no pressure on new people however because our experienced people will issue instruction so you will not feel lost. After a time you will get so "in sync" you won't need instruction, you will just know what to do.

Edited April 19, 2012 by ZQuickSilverZ

[bluepilot76]

ErichVon

How did you get to 200kph? Just do that again in reverse order. But I also like the haul it round plan. Remember it's not an Aeroplane, you can't exactly stall, just whip it around,,and prey that the blades don't chop each other. But if they do you have a special get out clause.

[ShuRugal]

1: kill collective

2: slowly raise nose to maintain desired climb/sink rate (try and keep it close to 0)

3: once you have achieved a nose-up angle of at least 45 degrees, maintain it

4: now add collective to maintain sink rate

5: as IAS drops below 50 kph, drop the nose and pour on collective as you lose translational lift

 

6: trim for hover.

[Suchacz]

1: kill collective

2: slowly raise nose to maintain desired climb/sink rate (try and keep it close to 0)

3: once you have achieved a nose-up angle of at least 45 degrees, maintain it

4: now add collective to maintain sink rate

4,5: Beware of vortex ring state :music_whistling:

5: as IAS drops below 50 kph, drop the nose and pour on collective as you lose translational lift

 

6: trim for hover.

[TurboHog]

I sometimes do a radical 360 degree turn with near 100% collective to lose all speed in the direction I was flying into. This is always faster than the normal way to stop a helicopter and I use it in combat situations only since you you will almost exceed the maximum 4g. Also requires some practice to do this without gaining or losing altitude...

 

I can post a track if you like...?

[Suchacz]

I sometimes do a radical 360 degree turn with near 100% collective

 

If you are using a lot of collective in this situation and stepping on a rudder in the same time, then you are putting huge load on rotors and you are risking its damage... IMHO ;)

Edited April 21, 2012 by Suchacz

[TurboHog]

If you are using a lot of collective in this situation and stepping on a rudder in the same time, then you are putting huge load on rotors and you are risking its damage... IMHO ;)

 

As I say I'm approaching the 4g limit when I pull off this 'stunt'. Never experienced any problem or failures after performing such a turn. I don't think, however, that this kind of flying is allowed for real shark pilots.

[ShuRugal]

4,5: Beware of vortex ring state :music_whistling:

 

Yes, it is very important that sink-rate be less than 3 m/s during this manuever. It also is wise to drop the nose before coming to a complete stop so that if you do enter VRS, you have some forward inertia to break it with.

[ErichVon]

I sometimes do a radical 360 degree turn with near 100% collective to lose all speed in the direction I was flying into. This is always faster than the normal way to stop a helicopter and I use it in combat situations only since you you will almost exceed the maximum 4g. Also requires some practice to do this without gaining or losing altitude...

 

I can post a track if you like...?

 

I like .trk files.

 

It took me awhile to figure out how to do the necessary manipulating within "My Computer". I even found the Demo files I never knew I had. LOL!

 

Learning new stuff at age 30 was a lot easier than it is, now at age 60. But like one guy here said, beats doing crossword puzzles. I love the Ka-50 sim, offline or online.

 

I have flown flight sims since 1985 with my 1st computer, Commodore-64. By far, this helicopter is the most intense sim except maybe the Space Shuttle sim back in the 1990's.

 

I can at least hover, now. In a stiff breeze, it is a challenge. I have not broken the helicopter, yet, doing the technique Viper suggested---that works pretty good.

Edited April 21, 2012 by ErichVon

[ErichVon]

ErichVon

How did you get to 200kph? Just do that again in reverse order. But I also like the haul it round plan. Remember it's not an Aeroplane, you can't exactly stall, just whip it around,,and prey that the blades don't chop each other. But if they do you have a special get out clause.

 

Yeah, I see what you are saying. Getting to 200 mph is no big deal. I have gone faster and over stressed the air frame. This sim needs search and rescue! In water, a mae-west vest and or rubber dingy would be nice, glub-glub-glub. Ejecting, the way the pilot hits the ground, he should be breaking his legs.

 

I'd like to see an AI helicopter come and get me back to base.

 

I have a 3 mode, 18 key Logitech G15 keyboard. I programmed a single key for ejecting, but kept accidently hitting it, forgetting to change modes. I use the Scroll Lock button for TeamSpeak. I have to find a better way out.

[ErichVon]

A reply to myself, Message #1:

 

I am not big on squads. It is just learning this stuff solo, as I am doing, piece by piece, is very time consuming. But like learning tool and die work in my younger years, stupid mistakes, especially EXPENSIVE mistakes (though not here), I rarely ever repeated it, after getting chewed out by the guy training me. Learning the Ka-50, solo, slowly, I tend to remember it better. I'm currently learning the deeper aspects of the ABRIS and the combat stuff.

 

One thing I find really hard to do, is landing on a FARP landing pad. That is going to take awhile, trial and error. I can get into a decent hover, fairly close, but getting down to an exact spot, is not easy. I have CH Products gear and I use its Control Manager. I'm thinking I need to fine tune my curves for my Fighterstick collective inputs. I do use the Auto Pilot Decent Mode and I get down OK.

 

Seems odd the IFF switch is non-functional, yet I can get my wingman to do a Recon and identify the enemy for me. The video tutorial showed it, I am assuming that is in full sim mode.

 

I learn some, I then play some both online and offline. I die a lot. LOL!

 

What squad is very active always playing DCS? It seems most guys, learn the new game, get fairly good at it, then quit playing it and play another new sim instead. I played with the S77th, mostly the Australian crew as I am up wee hours in New York, for a few months last year with the A-10C but they would not let me join them. They said I was a "good friend" of their squad, I was just not up to their level of expertise. I can understand that. Now, I don't even see them on the DCS or FC2 servers. World of Tanks seems to be big right now. I did not like it. Aces High tanking is a lot more realistic and fun for me, but I do it solo.

 

I learn a lot just reading the forums and of course the manuals, but I will still ask questions.

 

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Edited April 21, 2012 by ErichVon

[TurboHog]

This track shows my stop turns. the Third one to the right is the best I think. I gained too much altitude on the first one. Best thing is to do them flat. Some funnels, sideslips and fun with AI planes afterwards if you're interested :)

 

Make sure you watch the controls indicator closely to see how I combine cyclic/collective/rudder

Stop turns and other manoeuvres.trk

[ErichVon]

This track shows my stop turns. the Third one to the right is the best I think. I gained too much altitude on the first one. Best thing is to do them flat. Some funnels, sideslips and fun with AI planes afterwards if you're interested :)

 

Make sure you watch the controls indicator closely to see how I combine cyclic/collective/rudder

 

Hi,

 

Funnels I have seen guys do in Multiplayer and the offline Demo and the YouTube demo. I have read about how to do this, but I still have no clue actually doing it. I like it all, it is just going to take awhile getting this stuff into my brain and to my hands / feet :cry:

 

I popped a blood vessel in my head 10 years ago at age 50, I am sure that has some hindrances to my coordination ability. I know my response rate has slowed down quite a bit. I am surprised NY State allows me to drive my car.

 

Thanks for taking the time to makeup the .trk file.

[TurboHog]

Hi,

 

Funnels I have seen guys do in Multiplayer and the offline Demo and the YouTube demo. I have read about how to do this, but I still have no clue actually doing it. I like it all, it is just going to take awhile getting this stuff into my brain and to my hands / feet :cry:

 

I popped a blood vessel in my head 10 years ago at age 50, I am sure that has some hindrances to my coordination ability. I know my response rate has slowed down quite a bit. I am surprised NY State allows me to drive my car.

 

Thanks for taking the time to makeup the .trk file.

 

Maybe you can get an idea if you look at the controls indicator (alt+enter)... I think there was a funnel somewhere in that track. You push the nose down a bit and enter a sideslip. But you give more rudder input in the opposite direction of the sideslip to make the heli turn. A common problem is going too fast in the funnel. You have to stay below the 'escape velocity'.

Edited April 22, 2012 by TurboHog