'Mushy' feel??

[Beech]

Greetings all,

 

New to the sim, transitioned from F4.0 (original in box :)), to F4AF, then nothing for too long, now.... DCS. Me like! Owner of WH #10698, bought for the sim.

 

QUESTION.

 

It's a great sim. But.

 

Is it me, or is it a bit of a mushy airplane to fly? I seldom see more than 2.5G instant, let alone sustained. I read the tech info (BTW, is that missing in the manual, things like the different operating speeds, gear and flap opeating speeds, operating ceiling etc etc??), and e.g. 350 KIAS in 1G I will never reach. Other example: a sustained load of 3+ G at 275 KIAS, I just cannot get it. I am referring to tech info below.

 

Furthermore, yanking back on the stick gives me this very unpleasant yaw moment after a second or 3. I have no rudder pedals installed.

 

Any comments, PLEASE?? Thanks, rgds from Holland. Beech.

 

 

Selection:

"... Technically, the maximum airspeed for the A-10 is around 450 knots IAS, either with or without external stores, or Mach 0.75. However, this speed is seldom ever reached and in normal operations the max level 1 G speed is about 300-350 KIAS depending on weight, configuration, and temperature.

If the aircraft is flown on manual reversion, when both hydraulic systems are down, the technical speed limit is 390 knots IAS, or Mach 0.75 and with the gear down the speed limit is 200 KIAS. The maximum G-loads for the A-10 with a weight around 30,000 pound is +7.33/-3.0 G symmetrical and +5.80/-1 G asymmetric. If the aircraft is close to its maximum gross weight, the maximum G-Load goes down to +5.0/-2.0 G symmetrical and +4.0/-1.0 G asymmetrical.

As I mentioned in part one, the speed brakes have quite an impact on roll rate. At 300 knots with the speed brakes closed you can get a roll rate of around 130 degrees per second, but with the speed brakes at 40% roll rate increases to 200 degrees per second at the same speed.

The rudder becomes effective around 50 knots IAS. Having one engine go out will require moderate rudder input to counter the yaw but even with one engine out, there’s still enough control to fly where you want to fly.

 

When the flaps are deployed, they will increase lift and thus decrease aircraft stall speed, and they will also increase the amount of G available at low airspeeds. Deploying the flaps will result in a slight nose down pitch change. Level flight characteristics are good. The A-10 has very stable low speed handling, but it will not trim completely ‘hands off’ for any extended period of time.

 

The A-10 has a very good instantaneous turn rate, but the sustained turn rate isn’t as good because the aircraft does not have enough thrust to maintain its speed. However, it is still capable of more than 15 degrees per second maximum instantaneous G just prior to wing stall. There is a stall warning system which will warn the pilot that he’s getting close to a stall by sending out a ‘chopped’ tone. This system will also give a continuous tone when the aircraft is at its best performance, and for the best results you should hear that tone without getting to close to the stall point. The aircraft itself gives little stall warning but it has the earlier mentioned warning tones and when the gear is down a stick shaker will warn the pilot of impending stall. Stall speed depends on a lot of things, but without flaps and at a weight of around 30.000 pounds it’s about 120 IAS. Once in a stall, the A-10 has excellent stall/ post-stall/ spin characteristics. To get out of a stall the pilot has to reduce the AOA to below stall warning and do the obvious things like retracting the speed brakes. Overall it is a very easy aircraft to fly, which is good because a pilot’s first flight will be a solo flight. ;)

• Sustained load factors at 150 knots 2.29G
  
• Sustained load factors at 275 knots 3.26G
  
• Instantaneous load factors at 150 knots 2.34G
  
• Instantaneous load factors at 300 knots 5.0G
  
• Stabilized 45 degree dive speed 260 knots
  
• Take off distance at max gross weight 3850 feet
  

..."

Edited May 6, 2012 by Beech

[112th_Rossi]

This isn't a fighter. More a flying weapons delivery platform. Yanking back on the stick is just not the done thing and typical airspeeds are about half that a Falcon or other fast jet. You're just not going to get the performance statistics you're talking about.

[Panthir]

Dear mate,

 

What are important as well, are the turn rate and radius of turn as well.

Eventually, without external stores, A-10C is a very good low altitude performer when being arround 200-250 with limited vertical capability. You always need to have at least 2000 feet to get the maximum turn rate and g's to achieve a very very fast 180deg turn within a minimum turn radius. But useally nothing more. You can't survive against an A/C with better nose authority and thrust to weight ratio. Adequate energy management can give you only a few more living seconds.

 

A higher speed range between 350 and 250 can be obtained quite fast by unloading the A/C.

This speed is usefull only if you want to convert it in conjunction with available altitude for instant turns. A sustained 3.26g load factor with 275 knlts will have no effect in a battle against a fighter.

Instant high g manouvers can be obtained only by a progressive and not violent back stick movement. This A/C is not a fighter. Get practice with AoA indicator as well. Anything more than 20 AoA will contribute more to drag than lift. Near 7g's turns can be performed only when having speed higher than 300knots, by using the available altitude (with a high decend rate)

 

Meanwhile Warthog doesn't have any chance when being aquired by a Fighter (visually or by sensors) is an excellent performer for the role that it was planned.

 

For a fighterless theater, it's speed and turn radious range are excellent, for taking very fast a good firing position against ground targets. IMO A-10C is one of the best Maverick platforms.

On the other hand, pop up manouvers for low drag guided or unguided weapon without being exposed, is difficult to achived without deploying a multi A/C cordinated attack. High altitude (15-20000') range scoring style by using TGP is a way that several other A/C can be operationaly used. This specific operational style is not the A-10C signature.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Panthir

[Beech]

Cheers!

 

Hey guys, thnkx for quick reply. Especially Panthir's explanation suits me well - I need to focus much more on the CAS role than any other style (like said, high alt pop up stuff etc), and forget about the vertical capability. I remember that the Falcon was quite excellent in that.

 

The sim still rocks, dont get me wrong. Wouldnt have invested in the TM WH otherwise....

 

Last question - the yaw effect, I guess I can eliminate that partially by a more gentle easing into the turn, as you guys say, 'yanking is not the way to go'? Will practise more, see you in any virtual squadron? Looking for a good one...

 

Thanks again, Beech / The Netherlands

[Fish]

And don't forget to modify the stick pitch and yaw profile, from the game settings menu. (make them less sensitive). Suggest start with a curve of maybe 20-30% and see how that feels.

 

AND GET RUDDERS. Falcon does not need rudders because of the flcs. A10 does.!!

[roob]

The A-10 is a fat lady and if you handle her gently she will be your fortress of death that no one but fighters can touch :)

[Jona33]

And don't forget to modify the stick pitch and yaw profile, from the game settings menu. (make them less sensitive). Suggest start with a curve of maybe 20-30% and see how that feels.

 

AND GET RUDDERS. Falcon does not need rudders because of the flcs. A10 does.!!

 

You still have the SAS, no need to use pedals in turn.

[EtherealN]

Another point is that the aircraft's performance is very sensitive to drag and weight. A maximally loaded A-10C flies with the agility of a school bus. A lightly loaded A-10C can do aerobatics with the best of them.

 

I personally enjoy the A-10C mostd when I don't carry a B-52's load of ordnance with me. A mav or two and a few bombs is fine, and with a reduced fuel load you have all the agility you coould want if you get acquired by something nasty. Well, as long as the nasty object in question is something on the ground and not a MiG... :D

 

You can see this quite well in the charts of the -1 btw, which I highly recommend you try to get hold of. It answers a lot of the usual questions about the A-10C's flight behaviour in the simulator. :)

[foxfour]

yeah.. its like driving a bus. one time i did a super deep dive, and my wings fell off, no joke. this is no fighter.

[Eddie]

this is no fighter.

 

It is if you fly it properly and don't load excessively heavy weapon loads.

[Jona33]

I'm not saying rudders aren't useful, just pedals aren't essential to flying it.

[Beech]

You can see this quite well in the charts of the -1 btw, which I highly recommend you try to get hold of. It answers a lot of the usual questions about the A-10C's flight behaviour in the simulator. :)

 

Thnx everyone, very nice to notice that this is seriously answered. Fish, I subscribed before I even had the sim in my possession....:thumbup:

 

Daniel, what do you mean with the charts of "-1" ... ?

 

Cheers, Beech.

[Eddie]

The -1 is the real world flight manual.

 

You can't get the C model -1 but the A model -1 is available here: http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=42

[EtherealN]

Yeah, sorry about that, it's easy to get into the habit of thinking that the meaning of -1 is obvious to everyone when it in reality is a bit cryptic, to say the least. :P

[joey45]

I take it -1 means dash 1?

[Jona33]

I take it -1 means dash 1?

 

Yes.

[joey45]

That's what I thought.

[EtherealN]

Well, actually, it means -1. :P

 

The name of the relevant document is TO 1A-10A-1

 

Where the last number can have different numbers depending on which specific document it is for this specific aircraft.

 

Similar document for another aircraft: TO GR1F-16CJ-1

 

But yeah, it's not "minus 1", if that's what you mean. :)