New high end pc time, but which?

[Python]

Hi guys

 

Iv decided with the current crop of high end sims like DCS: P51 and A10 which really doesn't run well on my phennom II quad core its time for an upgrade, I had budgeted about £1200 and then i figured what the hey, thats what credit cards were made for so im going all out. This is a huge ammount of money for me so i figured id ask opinions from people who are a little more tech savvy than I am. My priorities are to absolutely max DCS: anything and FSX with the many add ons I have (photo scenery, airports, aircraft etc) It would be great to have some properly smooth flight going on hence im willing to pay far more than i hoped to, If these systems won't allow me to do that then tell me straight, they do seem pretty high end to me though.

 

Iv narrowed my decision down to two systems although I will of course consider all alternatives, i have neither the knowledge or the patience to build my own rig so im happy to pay a bit of a premium for someone els to do it.

 

The first is a pc designed for flight sims, its the chillblaster fusion superfortress... http://www.chillblast.com/Chillblast-Fusion-Superfortress-Flight-Simulation-PC.html I have checked a few extra boxes so the specs are as follows

 

Xigmatek Elysium case

Intel core I7 3770k (overclocked to 4.6GHz)

Akasa Nero ultra quiet cpu cooler (might upgrade further)

Asus P8Z77-V LK motherboard (Pro available + £40?)

8GB corsair PC3-12800 1600MHz DDR3 memory

Chillblast Nvidea Geforce GTX 680 2048MB

120GB corsair SSD

1TB 7200RPM second hard disk

Samsung Blu ray rom

corsair 750W v2 psu

Asus xonar DS 7.1 PCI sound card

windows 7 home premium 64bit

 

Grand total £1464.99

 

 

The other contender is from UKGC.. http://www.ukgamingcomputers.co.uk/erebus-i7-gaming-pc-p-120.html again, not standard but it is more money, the specs come from me trying to price match ukgc to the chillblast as there version of the above was over £1700, this is the specs they came back with and was confident its a good deal, on the surface im not so sure but them im no techy..

 

Antec 1200 case

corsair 750w TX v2

Intel core I7 3770k 3.5Ghz

overclocking + cooling not included (will cost extra)

8GB corsair DDR3 XMS 1600MHz/pci12800

Asus P8Z77-VLX

Nvidea GeForce GTX 680

seagate barracuda 1TB hard drive 7200rpm 32mb

corsair 120GB SSD (second hard drive)

creative soundblaster X-Fi xtreme audio

sony 24x dvd (not blu ray)

intergrated network card

windows 7 home premium

 

Total about £1520 before overclocking and extra cooling. (probably another £40-50)

 

 

So which is the best buy, to me the chillblast appears to have more kit for better money but i know nothing so id love to here from anyone who may own one of these systems, or atleast someone who may know a little more about these than i do, both are pretty respected companies by the looks of it. Oh and i forgot to mention, the chillblast has the option to optimise for flight sims, i have no idea how they would do this but its not cheap, if anyone knows what this means please fill me in.

 

Thank you very much and all the best

Edited July 10, 2012 by Python

[Pilotasso]

IMHO you got it pretty spot on with the 2nd config given your budget. I would only change it in a few details due to personal tastes.

 

EDIT: I would exchange that sound card for a better CPU cooling solution. Unless your editing sound and music, the need for high end soundcard is less relevant and gives you less trouble to add in a PCI card than removing the mobo to upgrade the cooler. Use onboard sound for a while.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Pilotasso

[Python]

Hi, sorry do you mean the second rig (the UKGC) is the better choice? I figured the chillblast looked much better myself, was i wrong? I have an amp and decent 5.1 speakers (both onkyo) I gave up on my budget and decided to just stretch myself and get whats best for fsx and dcs so keeping the sound card and upgrading the cooling isn't the end of the world, what cooling would you recommend?

 

many thanks.

[Pilotasso]

Im not an aestetics guy, I look rather at specs VS price, hence my preferrence, but hey its just my preferrence.

 

EDIT: the difference in price might mean only the profit margin intended by each vendor. Try a custom machine from seperate purchase parts, unless you're not confortable with the risk of building it yourself.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Pilotasso

[Peyoteros]

Check these "Gaming bundles" and "Gaming systems". Might find something and save a quid or two.

 

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=43&catid=2053

[Pyroflash]

The current setup that I would give you as a "Max Rig" is as follows:

 

Intel I7-3820 (or I7-3950K if you need the unlocked multiplier for easier OCing however this is a six core proc, so if you don't intend to OC it, I would go with the I7-3820)

 

Intel X79SR LGA 2011 Motherboard

 

Lian Li PC-A77F Case

 

Nvidia EVGA GTX-680

 

OCZ-ZT750W or Thermaltake SP-1000M PSU (the Thermaltake is a lot higher wattage, so it won't really be efficient when compared to the OCZ one unless you plan on sticking in a couple of extra graphics cards, which I don't recommend(efficiency is a function of percent load capacity, so the higher percentage of useful load when compared to the max load gives you better efficiency)).

 

GSKILL F3-12800CL9Q-16GBXM or Corsair CMP16GX3M4X1600C7 RAM (both are basically the same with the exception that the Corsair RAM has slightly tighter timings which will result in better gaming performance, however this does come at a nearly $100 price increase. You said you wanted the best though, and that is it).

 

2x 120GB Intel 520 Series SSD's in RAID 0.

 

2x Hitachi GST 7K3000 2TB in RAID 1 or 4x Hitachi GST A7K200 in RAID 10 (both provide data security, but only the RAID 10 solution provides a speed increase).

 

ASUS Xonar D1 Sound Card.

 

The total for such a rig is $2,608.87 in USD.

 

However these are only guidelines, and I am sure that there are companies that will build you something mightily close to this.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Pyroflash

[Python]

Thanks Pyro, I should have explained, i dropped my original budget but im not made of money by any means, this will be the third biggest purchase of my life, something like I posted above will have to do. That said what you posted figures out as about £1600, unfortunately it doesn't quite exchange like such in the real world, its likely $1 will translate as £1 here.

 

 

Im not an aestetics guy, I look rather at specs VS price, hence my preferrence, but hey its just my preferrence.

 

Im going for performance also, what is it about the UKGC rig that makes it stand out to you? Im trying to get my head around it all, on the surface the chillblast appeared to have more in my eyes...

 

Check these "Gaming bundles" and "Gaming systems". Might find something and save a quid or two.

 

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=43&catid=2053

 

Thank you I had a nosey there, iv emailed them what im after, just waiting to here back what they can offer aswell. I hope these specs will run DCS and FSX flawlessly...

[Pilotasso]

My choice was based on the PC case. They are both butt uggly (but then mine looks like a sci fi ammo box too), I still prefer the Antec case to the Xigmatec one. Everything else is too similar to be picky about. I would rather purchase the parts seperatly and my sin was analysing both of your propositions as seperated parts, not as an assembled unit, because ever since I earn my own salary I never purchased an assembled machine, ever. So I took a blind eye to the price tag, as the difference between them is so small that it might only reflect the different profit margins they charge you. They may differ alot.

 

I have 2 PC stores nearby and one of them charges about a good 5-20 Euro more per part than the other, as will their cost of labor. The service of assembly is paid by the hour and the rates in each store might be different. The final price tag might not reflect the real value of the individual parts at all. This is why I take the risk of assembly myself. More often than not I end up with a superior rig for similar prices.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Pilotasso

[Python]

Okay, you see I think the antec case is a bit tacky personally, im not one for transparent plastic and led's mind, the case can be changed though, its the inside bits im not so sure about. I priced up the parts and it would only save me about£150 to build it myself. I have no idea how to do this, il pay the extra happily in the knowledge that its being built by a professional and it is warrented as so.... and then theres the overclocking etc which I really don't want to mess with.

 

Maybe this is a better question.... would a rig such as the two above run DCS smoothly with everything on maximum? If it won't them il save my money until the tech moves on a little more.

[Pilotasso]

There is no PC in existence that would always run DCS on maximum (its grows on hardware requirements each iteration), some claim they do with their new builds while testing isolated solo missions but should try an online match full of ground units like usually they are, and then suddenly, FPS drops below the magical 60 number, after 2 hours, maybe 30.

 

I think Im correct without bias by saying that either these 2 configurations should get you the best - or pretty close to it- perfomance possible today yes.

[Cali]

Another choice would be getting a 670 instead of the 680. The 670 is only a tad bit slower in some bench marks and will save you $100+ dollars.

[LawnDart]

Agree with Cali; 670 best bang for the buck in the high-end GPU market at the moment!

[Python]

I had considered the 670 originally, i read a few real good reviews on the 680 however. I gues the GPU can be upgraded next year as they advance as il have a decent system to put it in. Thanks for the input guys, il have a good old think about it and choose which one to take, All the best.

[Pyroflash]

I had considered the 670 originally, i read a few real good reviews on the 680 however. I gues the GPU can be upgraded next year as they advance as il have a decent system to put it in. Thanks for the input guys, il have a good old think about it and choose which one to take, All the best.

 

I wouldn't upgrade from a 670 to a 680, too small of a performance increase to be worth the money.

 

Also, reading your last post, I must say that I misunderstood you a little. I will try to provide a list of recommendations to you about which pieces of hardware should or could be substituted for some of your already stated parts for nearly the same price.

 

Xigmatek Elysium case

Intel core I7 3770k (overclocked to 4.6GHz)

Akasa Nero ultra quiet cpu cooler (might upgrade further)

Asus P8Z77-V LK motherboard (Pro available + £40?)

8GB corsair PC3-12800 1600MHz DDR3 memory

Chillblast Nvidea Geforce GTX 680 2048MB

120GB corsair SSD

1TB 7200RPM second hard disk

Samsung Blu ray rom

corsair 750W v2 psu

Asus xonar DS 7.1 PCI sound card

windows 7 home premium 64bit

I started off with this one because better hardware for the price. Differences will be in bold, with explanations as to why I disagreed with the original selection in the parentheses

 

Lian Li PC-A70F (No tool diss assembly and easy access case)

Intel core I7 3770k (overclocked to 4.6GHz)

Intel RTS2011LC Liquid CPU cooler (trusted brand, quality is above expectations)

Intel OXDZ77BH55K motherboard (Has built in SATA 6GB/s controllers. The ASUS one does not.)

8GB corsair PC3-12800 1600MHz DDR3 memory (sounds good, however make sure the timings on this are tight (9-9-9-24 or less). I would call beforehand to make sure.)

EVGA GTX 680 (excellent warranty and RMA support from THE best GPU manufacturer)

120GB Intel 520 (superior firmware and stability)

1TB 7200RPM second hard disk (make sure that this is an HGST drive (Ultrastar Enterprise Drive is recommended), all other consumer drives have taken a rather flaky stance on reliability)

Samsung Blu ray rom

OCZ ZT750W (You want a fully modular supply. It will save lots of headaches when it comes to cable management)

AUZENTECH X-Fi Bravura 7.1 Audio Card (Hands down the best audio card on the market. Takes the original Creative X-Fi implementation and improves it with better circuitry, OP-Amps, solid caps, and many other features)

RHEL 6 (Who am I kidding :P(Yes, you still want Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit(though you should also ask for a DVD of the installer and key in case something goes the wrong way up in Windows)))

 

 

P.S. You should call them and ask if they can sub any of these parts in your build in case they do not have them listed on their site.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Pyroflash

[Python]

I don't think they have any of those bits, i shal call and ask about a few however, it depends how much all the bits will cost to be honest. I have tastes and expectations well above what my wallet will allow I think ;) im sure il come up with a decent enough system soon however. many thanks for the help.

[Pyroflash]

I don't think they have any of those bits, i shal call and ask about a few however, it depends how much all the bits will cost to be honest. I have tastes and expectations well above what my wallet will allow I think ;) im sure il come up with a decent enough system soon however. many thanks for the help.

 

Like I said, all of that stuff is comparable in cost to the stuff you had on your list originally. You shouldn't have too much of an issue as far as that goes, though availability, that is another question entirely ;).

[Pilotasso]

Heres whan an SSD can do.

On the left underlined in red you can see how long it takes for windows to start after BIOS post. On the right, it counts Windows shutdown+post+start total time.

(note: this SSD is degraded and filled with trash, it could be 10s to start)

 

[JG14_Smil]

I have to second what Pilotasso says about running DCS on high settings (makes me wonder why they even have such high settings if the latest and greatest systems cannot run them - and they can't).

 

Win 7 on a SSD boots up fast as Windows 3.1 :) Love it!

[Kuky]

I have to second what Pilotasso says about running DCS on high settings (makes me wonder why they even have such high settings if the latest and greatest systems cannot run them - and they can't)!

 

I guess it's like future proofing... if current PC can run absolute max settings, 1-2 years down the road the sim will look old and boring with nothing new to turn on, with going bit over what current hardware can handle, in 1-2 years time... well maybe more ;) we get to finally turn all features on and have more enjoyable experience and it's as if we got a slightly newer sim :D

[Pilotasso]

You remember how long it took to run F4 at max settings? :D

[Python]

Thanks pilotasso, an sdd with an second hd is a given already in my head, i like to record with fraps so the second hd should help massively with this and i had heard of the super quick boot up time. Speaking of multiple hard drives, does anyone know the best way to work with them, i.e what to install on which hard drive, im guessing the standard hd will be for all my general stuff and the SSD is where i will install all my flight sims and possibly any games i might decide to pick up?

[Pilotasso]

Leave Windows and games on the SSD (I also have Office and some other programs on the SSD), and all your media on the HD, anything that takes up alot of space and does not need the speed.

[Python]

I thought as much, thank you, iv decided il be going for the chillblast system with a few upgrades, maybe a haf x case instead of the elysium, a better brand second HD and what not. Il be sure to let you all know how the DCS stuff fares on it. Thank you all very much again for your help.

[Python]

Well iv just ordered, i dropped the gtx 680 for a 670 as the performance is not massively different for the extra £100 and that will be the part il upgrade in a year or two anyway, I put the money towards a bigger ssd as I figured that was more important for now to fit all of my fsx, shooters and dcs stuff on....

 

 

Xigmatek Elysium Black Case

Intel Core i7 3770K Processor Overclocked to up to 4.6GHz

Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 2 CPU Cooler

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste

Sabertooth Z77 Motherboard

8GB Corsair Vengeance PC3-12800 1600MHz DDR3 Memory

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2048MB Graphics Card (Asus, EVGA or Palit)

240GB Corsair Force 3 Solid State Drive

2000GB 7200RPM Seagate Barracuda Hard Disk - 6Gbps

Samsung Blu-Ray ROM / DVD-RW Combi Drive

Corsair CX 750W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified PSU

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio PCI Express

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit

 

 

I look forward to flying the P51 how it should be flown ;) Any input on the system is welcome as it can be changed still if anyone knows better...

[cichlidfan]

I look forward to flying the P51 how it should be flown ;) Any input on the system is welcome as it can be changed still if anyone knows better...

 

Personal opinion here but I would have gotten one of the gold rated PSUs from Corsair. The PSU is capable of taking out your entire system if it fails in a really bad way. Corsair has a good warranty but it won't cover your graphics card or motherboard.

 

Quote from Corsair's website:

CX Series™ power supply units are an excellent choice for basic system builds and desktop PC computer upgrades.

 

EDIT: Your own original subject line refers to the build as high end. ;)