Opinion needed for HOTAS/separate HOTAS components.

WildBillKelsoe · July 25, 2012

Hello friends,

Here is my situation. I'm in Saudi Arabia, and, believe it or not, they have the HOTAS warthog here. But the financial situation is as follows;

I can shell a total of 760 USD. That is as far as I could go. Also, note that I own a laptop, with 3 free usb ports. Plans are being elaborated for a desktop purchase.

Situation 1:

Here, the HOTAS warthog costs 1913 SAR (appx 520 USD with shipping). There are no rudders available country wide. I have to shell out extra 100-200 USD for a rudder from the following selection/brands from Amazon;

1- Saitek Pro flight combat rudder pedals

2- CH products pro pedals discover bundle

3- Saitek Pro flight pedals

> I understand the Hog stick uses 2 USB ports on the machine. The quality of construction, evident by my previous Tflight hotas X, as well as numerous positive feedback on Amazon and in here as well, is unquestionable.

However, with 3 USB ports dominated by the rudder, I stand short of connecting the trackIR at least, unless it could be hooked via powered hub, and register normally (something I wouldn't know, since I hooked directly and never tried it).

Again, this problem is not mandatory since a PC is underway, and this old jock I'm using for day-to-day business, and pleasure, is galloping down to retirement.

Situation 2:

Go for separate components from CH products

1- CH products pro pedals (same as above#1)

AND

2- CH products figherstick usb OR

2- CH products combat stick usb

AND

3- CH products pro throttle

All for 276 USD with fighterstick or 256 USD with combat stick.

> I haven't tried CH products before, but I hear they are quite reputable for quality of construction and longevity in the average joe's hands (the constant maintainer-type simmer). But with that said, the 3 would occupy the laptop's 3 usb ports, leaving no room for mouse/trackIR which I left back home.

Situation 3:

Forget about quality construction and just get the much-debated, apparently poorly supported, buggy Logitech's G940 system for 270 USD plus 110 USD courier charge total 380 USD and save the cash for a rainy day. I could go for Fry's at extra 310 but DOA is something I'm afraid of.

> The thing is, I haven't tried the 940 either, but the plus is, they all go into one USB port. So, when the desktop is here, I stop worrying about the USB ports and all that sh1t, in addition to the force feedback which is tempting given I own the DCS threesome :D, which may/may not be with CH products or the Hog stick. But the cons are, as you may know, lack of proper customer support by logitech, too much technicality (which I don't mind to a limit- PeterP, you're the man!).

>> So, I got funds, I want specifics with balance;

#1 Precision. No/little deadzone. I know it's out of the question, but precision, specially with rudder is a must. I own a car, I want the same feeling with touchy legs on the rudder. no jerky. This means HALL effect, pots with a plethora of movement sensitivity, to the millimeter.

#2 Construction and durability, and above all, longevity. No sense investing money over hardware to snap/spike/twitch (etc..) after 2 months of regular, but careful use.

#3 No detents on throttle range, permissible a little for rudder (if not over number 1, I'll think about it). The TMTFHX I had killed my libido with the A-10, that I had to remove it, with drastic overfriction.

#4 Price is not an issue, so long as 1,2,3 above are met. This is the big push, baby!

#5 account for limited USB ports (3).

> With the above points in question, the options at hand laid out hereof, and your experience with using any of these, I'd gladly welcome, at this juncture, any and all feedback.

Sincerely,

Bill

JCook · July 25, 2012

No problem.

Just get a powered USB Hub and add as many ports as you need.

I'd recommend the WartHog HOTAS and Saitek Combat Pro Rudders.

531-Ghost · July 25, 2012

My experience is: The FighterStick, ProThrottle and ProPedals meet/exceed your requirements. Yes, I've owned/used other brands but, the build quality and software (Control Manager) of CH Products is second to none.

metalnwood · July 25, 2012

I owned the fighterstick/ch throttle/ch rudders for some time. The stick was great but when it came to center mount it had a base a bit larger than I wanted. The rudders were a bit closer together than I liked and I must admit I didnt care for the style of throttle a lot.

I have just listed the negatives. The gear worked and worked well. After many years finally one brake axis went on the rudders.

When a10 was in beta I started to play that and when word that the warthog was being released I was very keen. In NZ the price was going to be horrific so I went and bought a logitech 940 to see what it was like, i.e. would it lure me away from the insane price I would need to pay. In the end it didnt so I wold it on and bought the warthog.

The hog arrived and proved that it was a completely different kettle of fish from any controller I had ever owned. It ticked all the boxes for me and I would not go back to any of the others.

I ended up replacing the ch rudder with the saitek combat pedals purely because I wanted more distance between my feet but there is a center detent in the saiteks, there is also a mod/procedure to remove it. On the CH rudder is is a spring to return to center so it's not really noticable, I found myself applying rudder accidentally on the CH but not on the saitek by resting my feet so I would say there is no real detent in the CH.

Bill, a number of people ask the same question often but rarely do they have the money on hand and are willing to shell it out. Often they want to be talked in to the lesser product and I would agree that one of the other products would do. In your case with money not being an issue then go for the hog, no doubt. The saitek 'will do' but the hog is a step up. The throttle you will love, the CH throttle I dont think you will nearly as much.

If you fly the dcs A10 you cannot go any other way, honestly if you dont get it and fly someone elses with the a10 you will top yourself for not having got it.

Edited July 25, 2012 by metalnwood

Runibl · July 25, 2012

I have to agree to above. The Thrustmaster Warthog is by far the best controller out there (at least in this price range), both in quality and feel.

It is expensive, but definitely worth every bit of it.

These meet all your requirements. Precise and very durable.

Throttle is very smooth and precise.

Get a powered hub though, they are not expensive. Will give you more ports, and dedicated power for the USB ports.

When it comes to rudder pedals, it's probably different from person to person.

CH rudder pedals

I hear a lot of good and some bad about these. But since i have never tried them out i can't say anything myself.

Main reason i didn't go for these was the fact that these are narrower then the Saitek pedals, which would be to narrow for me.

Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals.

Bad thing first, it has an annoying center detent. This is not a problem to many people, and others can not live with it at all. For me it's not a big problem, but it is noticeable, especially when flying helicopters.

Good thing is, it can be modded away: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=73311

Haven't tried it myself, mainly because i won't risk it until i could potentially afford a replacement, if the worst happened.

These pedals i have had for a long time now, and still going strong. I am very happy with these.

Saitek Pro Flight Combat Rudder Pedals.

Have not tried these, but I hear that the tech and internal stuff is very similar to the previous pedals, including center detent.

They look good though, but can't say much about them.

HawkMedic126 · July 26, 2012

Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals.
Bad thing first, it has an annoying center detent. This is not a problem to many people, and others can not live with it at all. For me it's not a big problem, but it is noticeable, especially when flying helicopters.
Good thing is, it can be modded away: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=73311
Haven't tried it myself, mainly because i won't risk it until i could potentially afford a replacement, if the worst happened.
These pedals i have had for a long time now, and still going strong. I am very happy with these.

Saitek Pro Flight Combat Rudder Pedals.
Have not tried these, but I hear that the tech and internal stuff is very similar to the previous pedals, including center detent.
They look good though, but can't say much about them.

You can't go wrong with either version of the Saitek pedals. I have the Pro Combat pedals, as I feel they are a bit more realistic to how the pedals of the actual aircraft are operated (heels on floor, move rudder with balls of feet).

The mod to remove center detent is simple. I accomplished every step start to finish in under 15 minutes. Just remember to be precise and mindful of the internal wires. I added some extra tension to the pedals after removing the detent and now they feel very similar to the pedals in an actual aircraft (aside from the centering spring).

Runibl · July 26, 2012

Probably would have bought the combat pedals if I didn't already have the others. They do look great.

Might have a try at the mod soon, thanks for the advise.

WildBillKelsoe · July 27, 2012

Gentlemen, I have good news! The Warthog is on its way!!! YEEEEEAAAAUUUHHH!!!!

Any advice pending delivery? If I connect it to the USB ports on my MoBo of my laptop, would I brick it?

Now I'll update this thread with the unboxing, installation and game control experience with the HOG!!

HOG 1-1 TERMINATE

STOP!

OUCH!

Oh!

I'm soo ****en excited!! I am having an orgasm now!

Now about the rudder pedals, which do you recommend to complement the hog in function?

Just mind the precision being top request ftm..

Kuky · July 27, 2012

Cold shower... to cool down or you might overload? :)

WildBillKelsoe · July 27, 2012

oh, trust me, it is already too bad for me.. :thumbup:

cichlidfan · July 27, 2012

oh, trust me, it is already too bad for me.. :thumbup:

I am just glad you finally bought something. :P

WildBillKelsoe · July 27, 2012

I am just glad you finally bought something. :P

In that case that makes 2 of us. Party on!

Runibl · July 27, 2012

Congratulations on your purchase :)

You could while waiting for it, go to http://www.thrustmaster.com . And in their support area download Manuals, drivers and software, then you can read about it and already have all the updated stuff ready when it arrives.

As for pedals, I recommend reading all the reviews you can find. Check out peoples opinions. Those 3 mentioned earlier are all good in their own ways, and people tend to like them for different reasons.

The best would be to actually try them out somewhere, but depending on what's around it might not be possible.

Also keep in mind there are also more expensive pedals out there, that might be more precise and durable. But if I recall, the price jumps quite a bit.

metalnwood · July 27, 2012

I'm soo ****en excited!! I am having an orgasm now!

With porn having overrun the internet I understand how sometimes when googling for a product it is buried under pages of 'other stuff'

I dont think you looked far enough, I am certain you bought the wrong 'thrustmaster'

PeterP · July 27, 2012

Wild Bill,

Just to let you know :

Gentlemen, I have good news! The Warthog is on its way!!! YEEEEEAAAAUUUHHH!!!!

...this is not the end of the road - thought about a extension? adding FFB?! (sorry if it was mentioned before - I didn't read all replys)

extension:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=85521

FFB:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=83814

Here are the benefits:

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1517878#post1517878

Tell that Suchoi !

The AP of the Su-25 works by controlling the trim.
-point!-

As I told: FFB= no-brainier - You feel/see where your stick is facing. - as in real.

EDIT:
Example for the A-10:

(sorry, but you all really don't know what you are missing! I don't want to start mentioning the FFB of the P-51d....I never want to touch a "dead" stick again!
reminder : this thread has been opened because someone with a X-box controller had difficulties to control the plane )

There is no know logic how to simulate this without FFB - as viper asked:
How does the plane know that you are not fine with the given flight-path?

(please don't answer - this question was rhetorical)

Short: You need the proper tool for the job.
And flight-simming is asking for FFB.

Another rhetorical question:

Would you enjoy a racing-sim without a FFB-Wheel??!
...you would probably stand up and say "Nah! This car-sim is rubbish!"... I too!

Short example : I never was able to do a complete Air-to-Air refuelling before having a FFBstick ... after this I made it on the first try, and it was rather easy. - because I always knew how I'm trimmed without have to look.

WildBillKelsoe · July 27, 2012

Wild Bill,
Just to let you know :

...this is not the end of the road - thought about a extension? adding FFB?! (sorry if it was mentioned before - I didn't read all replys)

extension:
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=85521

FFB:
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=83814

Here are the benefits:
>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1517878#post1517878

Thanks peter. luckily, my uncle owns a machine shop, one specializing in making those extensions. I can make a broomstick extension if I want to :thumbup:

and for the FFB, well, I'll just baby her till the stick becomes lazy, then I'll do your thing.

Oh, I suggest removing the wheels from your chair (the one you removed the crotch portion for the stick from also in your vid). You'll just place extra strain on your back muscles wrestling both the rudder and the chair.

I'm thinking now about the rudder, then the new rig (custom built for 1435 USD).

If I may share the components and get your opinions, but let's beer and veer first!

Edited July 27, 2012 by WildBillKelsoe

WildBillKelsoe · July 27, 2012

With porn having overrun the internet I understand how sometimes when googling for a product it is buried under pages of 'other stuff'

I dont think you looked far enough, I am certain you bought the wrong 'thrustmaster'

HEHEHEE!!!! :lol::megalol:

lets hope customs here don't confiscate it for being triggery and all that sh1t...

PeterP · July 27, 2012

No- problem. I see, you are knowing where you are heading...:)

Oh, I suggest removing the wheels from your chair (the one you removed the crotch portion for the stick from also in your vid). You'll just place extra strain on your back muscles wrestling both the rudder and the chair.

this chair has a hydraulic damping - and when I place the stick in the cutting under the chair,

together with my weight, the stick- and chair and myself will be very very tightly hold in place.:) - that's why I have this four enormous (Table-)stands under the stick.

...and the butt-kicker can start to growl.

edit:

Did anyone said broomstick?!

>>>

DIY P-51D style grip for HOTAS Cougar

Edited July 27, 2012 by PeterP

WildBillKelsoe · July 27, 2012

No- problem. I see, you are knowing where you are heading...:)

this chair has a hydraulic damping - and when I place the sick in the cutting under the chair,
together with my weight, the stick- and chair and myself will be very very tightly hold place.:) - thats wy I have this four enormous (Table-)stands under the stick.

...and the butt-kicker can start to growl.

oh ;).

WildBillKelsoe · July 27, 2012

edit:

Did anyone said broomstick?!
>>>
DIY P-51D style grip for HOTAS Cougar

Jesus, man!! What are you? A monster!!! :thumbup:

You'll drop my jaw if you recreate the throttle/prop for the mustang with any component of your choice.

PeterP · July 27, 2012

You'll drop my jaw if you recreate the throttle/prop for the mustang with any component of your choice.

(Please just write "STOP IT" when you have the feeling that I just want to show off )

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=86015

I will wait for the trim-box until P-51D will go Gold.

WildBillKelsoe · July 28, 2012

(Please just write "STOP IT" when you have the feeling that I just want to show off )

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=86015

I will wait for the trim-box until P-51D will go Gold.

**** me bananas!!! that is awesome! very good setup for the shark and the stang there bud! you are a BEAST!

WildBillKelsoe · August 3, 2012

update: the merchant who's supposed to have the hog stick turned out they didn't ... I'll go with the CH products trio. Its either that or the 940. Your call guys. Precision. Precision. Precision...

Which offers the best for air to air refueling in the hog? Kindly advise because I have to place the order today..

Edited August 3, 2012 by WildBillKelsoe

531-Ghost · August 3, 2012

Precision = CH Products.

metalnwood · August 5, 2012

If it was either the CH gear or the 940 then I would go for the CH.

I really would not like to live with the ch throttle anymore though. If you can get another warthog then do it!

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