Arduino, EOS and other funky ways to interface

[agrasyuk]

Hi guys.

I read in several threads about people using custom solutions to interface with DCS based on Arduino or other micro-controller devises. It seems awesome to have self contained devices like UFC , NMSP or others that provide both input and output . i read about it quite a bit, see some accomplishments of others, works in progress and my head spins a bit at this point :) i would appreciate answers to from those fluent in the topic (Gadrock, Metalnwood, Deadman, others?). below is my track of thoughts, it probably is out of wack mostly so feel free to correct and educate me. or perhaps point me to threads I managed to miss in my search.

 

 

so say lets say i'd like to accomplish SAS panel with arduino uno https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11021. a simple cheap board, 14 digital I/O and 6 analog connections, seems perfect for the 5 toggles, a button, indicator and analog Yaw (to be translated somehow). i looked at the Arduino IDE and probably would be able to write a code to translate a input on the board into a keystroke, but thats where it ends for me...

 

how will it talk to DCS?

*. is there a "listener" software that monitors the state of this Uno board?

*. will it write directly into LUA export file?

*. how output to LED can be accomplished? reading LUA file for changes ? how will i trigger events on board?

 

to go beyoud Uno, i see several boards with RJ45 net jack and ready scetches that facilitate things like DHCP. i remember reading one of the member's intention to have all the interfacing done via LAN where boards talk to a Server.

*. is that Server a custom written application?

*. how will it then again exchange data with DCS?

 

EOS (by Gadrock), a serial protocol (additional set of instructions) that sits on top of Arduino(?) and already has a good relation with Helios. i already have one device (CMSP) that interfaces with Helios via EOS. Gadrock, i remember you ordered custom designed PCBs for it and flashed the controller chips with the firmware you wrote.

*. is there a ready board (like Uno) that i can buy and and flash with... erm what ? :)

*. IIRC you mentioned that your CMSP can serve as "gateway" to other EOS devices connected via bus (EOS bus?) to provide single point of connection to PC. what do i need to build such device? or have i dreamt up something?

*. Every time i open Arduino IDE i see the CMSP blink/reset. so they must have some relation.

 

thanks in advance

:book:

Edited October 25, 2012 by agrasyuk

[wolfster]

Hi Agrasyuk, I also like the idea of self contained devices based around the Arduino board.

 

It would be amazing if there was a firmware (or other clever way) that allowed the board to interface to Helios (Stunning application, thanks Gadroc).

 

Given the off the self availability of the board, it's relatively low cost and the number of shields (bar the power requirements you could even have a wire free, WI-Fi enabled panel!) it would be a real enabler for a newbie pit builder like myself.

 

Unfortunately I lack the intellect, lab coat and blackboard required to write code at this level but I'm keen to learn from others.

 

Have you got anywhere with your research? Thanks.

[alphacharlieecho]

OPEN SOURCE

 

Why is this post stalled? All the information I have read here on these forums always stop at this crucial piece of information.

 

To be honest with you I would much rather get my feet wet in other well established flight simulators where there is a history of solutions readily available.

 

The fact that this community is so reluctant to share this knowledge leads me to believe that the game designers them selves couldn't care about growing the community any more than the current users.

 

If there is troll tracks in the sand there is prolly a troll near by!!!

[agrasyuk]

Well actually it doesn't stop here and community is not reluctant one bit. About 50% of the post is stupid questions that should not have been asked as the export is well documented already.

Since I posted I found out quite a bit about the UDP export from DCS, got familiar with arduino serial comms. In one word I see it is possible. At the moment all my effort is on hardware. I hope that when I'm done software part will be complete by others . If not i m going st teach myself programming and try to come up with my own middleware however crude it may be

[BIGNEWY]

I would really like to use my arduino but lack the knowledge to use it, I will follow with interest as you un-weave the DCS interface :)

[Gadroc]

Why is this post stalled? All the information I have read here on these forums always stop at this crucial piece of information.

 

To be honest with you I would much rather get my feet wet in other well established flight simulators where there is a history of solutions readily available.

 

The fact that this community is so reluctant to share this knowledge leads me to believe that the game designers them selves couldn't care about growing the community any more than the current users.

 

If there is troll tracks in the sand there is prolly a troll near by!!!

 

<Rant On>

WOW. There is a significant difference in reluctance to share information and available time to package and communicate said information.

 

Asking specific questions will get you faster answers. There are MANY posts on this forum where people ask very very broad questions (how do I wire up a pit is one of them). Writing firmware for embedded systems is not a trivial push this button and done endeavor. Neither is understanding the intricacies of writing a bus protocol to communicate across many daisy chained devices.

 

In my experience people who complain of this lack of this last piece of crucial information, want people to design everything for them. I try when ever possible to help folks, but I usually back away quickly when it becomes someone asking about a pit specific activity but the real questions are "how do I write a program" or "how does a electrical circuit work". I just don't have the time to teach them. If they ask specific questions about programming or something I can answer about electronics I'll explain it.

 

Good riddance I say to you... Head off to your magical land of everything already explained. Ironically I realize I'm feeding the troll who talks about trolls. This ends my part in any following discussion on these lines.

</Rant Off>

 

This is no disrespect to agrasyuk here btw, as he is actually thinking it through out loud here not actually asking some to tell him exactly what to do. I just missed the last parts about EOS when this post rolled around the last time.

 

*. is there a ready board (like Uno) that i can buy and and flash with... erm what ?

Yes. All of my boards are prototyped first with a standard Uno and a breadboard. I have a set of libraries I use to make writing the firmware easier. It has a standard wrapper which

* Replace native Arduino serial library with EOS bus stack

* exposes pins (either native or through MCP230* i2c IO expanders) as either Digital IO or LED outs.

* Expose PWM pin as a backlight dimmable channel

* Expose pins connected to a stepper driver as a stepper motor

For my purposes I design circuit boards which embeds minimal circuitry to run the "Arduino" side of the house. That's actually cheaper, since PCB manufacturing costs are the highest cost by far (you have to order in qty>25 usually or pay $20+ per board). Since the panel boards will communicate over RS-485 the USB port, USB - Serial chip, several headers, etc are all just unused cost in the Arduino you buy to go under the shield. ATMega328P + Crystal and other support parts are < $10.

 

*. IIRC you mentioned that your CMSP can serve as "gateway" to other EOS devices connected via bus (EOS bus?) to provide single point of connection to PC. what do i need to build such device? or have i dreamt up something?

The EOS protocol is a multi-drop bus protocol. Each of my EOS boards has a RS-485 driver on it so boards can be daisy chained together. To do this you either need a RS-232 to RS-485 adapter and select direct Serial EOS in Helios... or build one of the EOS Bus shields which piggy backs on a normal Uno and off load bus polling to a microcontroller.

 

*. Every time i open Arduino IDE i see the CMSP blink/reset. so they must have some relation.

That is just the USB/Arudino IDE reseting the board. Since EOS boards use the Arduino boot loader you can load anything you want.

 

to go beyoud Uno' date=' i see several boards with RJ45 net jack[/quote']

Microcontrollers have significant resource constraints. You would be really surprised how much memory and code it takes to speak TCP/UDP over IP. The overhead for this is just not worth it and will cause you problems. Now making a head end unit that talks TCP/IP with a more powerful micro controller is very viable and I may go down that path as well. Microcontrollers are getting more powerful but also less hacker friendly. It's much easier dealing with a 28-40pin chip vs the 128+ pin monsters that pack more punch.

[Merlin-27]

I am a big fan of the Arduino and I'm interested to see what people come up with but another possible option comes to mind which may create a shorter term solution. While building a full sized arcade emulator cabinet I discovered the IPAC line of products made by Ultimarc. It allows you to physically wire up switches to terminals and then map each to keyboard keys via a USB interface. The IPAC2 module allows 32 inputs and they have a more robust option as well. Just a thought.

 

http://www.ultimarc.com

[Gadroc]

Keyboard emulators are extremely limited. There are a limited number of keyboard combinations and every application on the computer will receive them, regardless if they want them. Second you will run into problem with controls that need a held down or constant on signal. You also can't poll for current position easily.

 

I would highly recommend avoiding a board which is only capable of being a keyboard emulator. It may be a great quick start, but make sure you can either use it as a DirectX controller or pragmatically read input states with out sending keys.

[Merlin-27]

Keyboard emulators are extremely limited. There are a limited number of keyboard combinations and every application on the computer will receive them, regardless if they want them. Second you will run into problem with controls that need a held down or constant on signal. You also can't poll for current position easily.

 

I would highly recommend avoiding a board which is only capable of being a keyboard emulator. It may be a great quick start, but make sure you can either use it as a DirectX controller or pragmatically read input states with out sending keys.

 

I see your point with the constant on state. I guess I was thinking small scale like engine start controls and such but things like fuel Boosters stay on.

[metalnwood]

Merlin, while a little more expensive the ultimarc uhid stuff is good.

 

You can get them with few or many inputs. Each input can be configured to be a keyboard key/macro or joystick button/analog axis and they will allow you to add rotary switches amongst other things.

 

So if you are looking for a small thing like that then I can recommend them as a customer who has bought a few things over the years - including the ipac for my first arcade machine :)

[Panthro]

what about the tinsy that can be made to behave like a HID and is cheap as chips.

 

dont know how hard it would be to make custom code for tho.

[Combat2468]

Erm, now i'm getting worried. I've bought a couple of GP-Wiz40's thinking it will only need 2 of these per side for the panals but no mention in here yet.

 

Am I on the right track or are they not up to the job?

[agrasyuk]

Gpwiz40 is joystick card with 32 DX keys- perfectly fine. Above is discussion about keywiz, keyboard emulator, no DX keys. Can work but as it was said (and i agree) not perfect solution for DCS.

[Panthro]

I started with a GP40 myself, using it is easy something a 6year old could do so its not a bad move at all, it just cant take analog inputs.

 

the the LeoBodnar256A13 or B256A13 if you are going to do a whole pit it will

be cheaper and will have less USB ports and power cables used. Just be aware it doesnt have screw terminals like the GPwiz so soldering it is!

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80201&highlight=leobodnar

[Ignamious]

I've been working on a pit as well, trying to figure getting the switches to the computer easily with the ability to switch computers without installing driver after driver.

 

So far, ive found 4 different ways of doing it with Arduino

 

the Teensy++ 2 with teensyduino makes it so one can easily make a "joystick" with 32 buttons. this also allows one to use rotary encoders to make an "Up" and "Down"

 

Also using the Teensy++2 i found a program called Generic HID allowing one to make a VERY EASY HID device. it makes adding Joystick buttons and Potentiometers really easily.

 

next i found a post here blackleg has a post about interfacing the Arduino and DCS for outputting info to an Arduino.

 

and finally i found this: V-USB this allows a standard Atmel atmegaXYZ to be a USB 1.1 device. I JUST found this about 40 min ago and have done only a little info on it. but at this time it looks like another good solution, specifically because the ATTiny 2/4/8 is Arduino compatible!!!

 

 

 

One thing i was looking to do was use the I2C Bus to add more inputs or outputs to the chips and make it so i don't have 45 USB devices. I can make my panels with I2C chips on them and use only a few wires to connect them to the main controllers.

 

 

I'm still working out the bugs, but i just ordered my foot pedals and in a few weeks i will be ordering my Thrustmaster Warthog hotas and the actualy pit (hopefully) will be started with the month.

 

 

I myself am building a pit, and sadly i've been stalled by duty, time and the lack of tools.

 

i'm getting ready to start getting my Firmware ready, but am going to need to spitfire it with people who know more then me. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=97477