Outlaw Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) Its not only the password problem here; its the amount of servers also... I dont see the point off all these empty servers or servers with 1 or 2 players in a list of 20+ servers... How about reducing the amount off servers so that players can ply in populated servers rather than looking at empty servers list most of the time.. For example 2 or 3 servers in every region (for good ping) Edited November 13, 2012 by Outlaw Specs: 13900k @ 5.5Ghz, 64GB @ 3600Mhz, 3080Ti.
BRooDJeRo Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Solution: Build a servermachine yourself, install DCS World yourself, create your most awesome mission yourself, run a TS3 server and a HTTP on the side for extra functionality yourself, pay the electrical bills yourself. Be king, have the it the way you want it yourself!! Good luck.
Steel Jaw Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 How about reducing the amount off servers so that players can ply in populated servers rather than looking at empty servers list most of the time.. For example 2 or 3 servers in every region (for good ping) No dice: many of those servers you see with few folks are VFW training servers with an IP and Cadet. "You see, IronHand is my thing" My specs: W10 Pro, I5/11600K o/c to 4800 @1.32v, 64 GB 3200 XML RAM, Red Dragon 7800XT/16GB.
Frostie Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 The habit of locking servers is getting too common, the whys and wherefores need to be understood that it is not really necessary to have a closed server for enjoyable online serious sessions. The only issue is ATC but DCS has a great comm system, RL flights don't communicate with every other flight in the air and having more than 4 people in the same channel just doesn't work, so what is so critical that 6 groups of 20 guys sit in the same TS server on different channels not talking to each other. Different groups reside in their own TS servers as long as they're learning to fly serious missions in a serious manner then that's what counts. With this openess and social interaction comes growth, new squads are formed and more inspiration and drive occurs. The more immersive the mission then the more people want to join the big picture and get hooked up in TS, use TARS and just enjoy flying in a heavily populated server. That is how non dynamic campaign driven online worlds thrive. If your server's powerful enough then put it to good use, let it open for a duration, let people experience your hard work, why not. In FC2 we fly ip training in populated servers with no issues whatsoever, after all you only need to ask and people amazingly respond positively, they understand you pay the bills. People need to learn and respect your rules it's not a given but the results pay off, and if you announce 'the server will now close for uber hardcore session, only TS users allowed' then i'm sure the response would be ten fold and you might just be shocked at how many join TS and hey presto you've created interest and drive. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 51st PVO "BISONS" Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
Supersheep Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 You have heard about TARS, haven't you? but what about the other 16-20 hours in the day. Ever tried to build a mission that meaningfully runs more then half a day? Well I did, and I failed. If someone has the patience to succeed AND play it in an open server (try yourself), that commands serious respect. Edit: Unsubscribed here. Super- The PVC Pipe Joystick Stand How to thread
JABO2009 Posted November 13, 2012 Author Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) Wow! wouldnt have expected so many replies here, but clearly shows that this is a HOT topic and will be in the future. regarding the stormily discussed discrepancys especially between "Frostie" and "pbishop" I wanna ask you, pbishop the following: you really HONESTLY say that DCS: -"has a sh&*tty mission editor?" (-> not at all, they improved a lot and still improve) -"no campaign worth playing?" (-> not al all, Lock On and FC series had some really nice campaigns) -"no missions with the game or on these forums in a quantity to suffice a years worth of play?" (-> not at all, the community generates GREAT campaigns from time to time and (you woulndt believe this), share it on OPEN servers and its big fun) -"all we get out of the box is the planes, nothing more?" (->not at all: its what everbody personally makes out in flyin these planes, but thats the point you simply dont understand) -"Might that be what keeps this community small?" -> the biggest NO, you get from my side: DCSW with the module plugin method, was INTENDED by ED to be much more community friendly and to give people the ability to buy content they are specially interested in and share it in MP if desired... -> plug and play into DCSW methodology was a great step foward, the right way to go and the community is developing nicely... If everybody here would think like you, we all would fly in 4 to 8 client locked servers and would get bored immediately, cause the product wouldnt evolve cause of lacking community exchange, hence no further development...till the products DEAD some day. there are many expamples of come and go games and sims out there, that have shown this, if the community support is gone , its more or less over.. that being said, I would highly recommend guys like you to basically rethink their DCSW MP approach a little. Edited November 13, 2012 by JABO2009 Intel I7 - 10700 K @ 3,80GHz / 64 GB DDR3 / RTX 3090 / Win 10 Home 64 bit / Logitech X56 HOTAS / HP Reverb G2 Running DCS on latest OB version
pbishop Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Only because you asked. -"has a sh&*tty mission editor?" (-> not at all, they improved a lot and still improve) To do anything in the mission editor [although improved] is very difficult, which does 2 things. First, it discourages those that get intimidated by it from using it and second it takes forever to accomplish anything you want in when you finally learn it. I am very familiar with the arma 2 editor, the falcon TE, and modding of various other games; however, this editor is by far the hardest to learn and implement to get it to do what you want. Even when you know what you are doing, it is very difficult to obtain the results you want and usually just settle for what you get. -"no campaign worth playing?" (-> not al all, Lock On and FC series had some really nice campaigns) I have no experience with FC series, I only own the DCS series [except p51], and the campaign is not very interesting or replayable. There is no satisfaction or apparent effect of your efforts. They do not come with MP compatibility [which is kinda rediculous regardless of how easy it is to change]. Comparing DCS to most other games, the campaign feels empty. Best example is that most the campaign missions I played in DCS-a10 were completed by allied aircraft before I even took off, I dont remember what version but it was still a very dissapointing experience and boring. -"no missions with the game or on these forums in a quantity to suffice a years worth of play?" (-> not at all, the community generates GREAT campaigns from time to time and (you woulndt believe this), share it on OPEN servers and its big fun) Yeah, and most missions that were not updated to support the new patch got left behind. And like I said, the mission maker's effort is more than appreciated, however, there are too few and too little. And I know of no other game that ships and says here is a plane make your own experience. At least certainly not for the cost of this series. There is not enough content to satisfy a community at the moment, regardless of the efforts made here. -"all we get out of the box is the planes, nothing more?" (->not at all: its the community interaction what makes flyin these planes more than just planes, but thats the point you simply dont understand) Its not that I dont understand, that is my problem. Without any backbone there is too little to build the community on. I mean the briefing screen and UI is poorly designed, you cant join as a part of the same flight. You can only assign AI as wingmen. There is way too much coding to be done to get the AI to feel real. Ends of missions are empty, when they work. No online logbook. Mission editor has all the missing elements to make bigger and more creative scenarios that are DYNAMIC (without way too much effort), etc.... All these things break the game where it is critical to have strength. If the core of the game or building blocks to designing missions is weak, you can not expect the results to be great. A new house built on a broken foundation is still a broken house. I agree it has improved, but it is still very sub-par compared to other games with the same features. -"Might that be what keeps this community small?" -> the biggest NO, you get from my side: DCSW with the module plugin method, was INTENDED by ED to be much more community friendly and to give people the ability to buy content they are specially interested in and share it in MP if desired... -> plug and play into DCSW methodology was a great step foward, the right way to go and the community is developing nicely... Its not by getting more people satisfied with the basic plane in the box that community grows. Regardless of where you stand, the divide is already apparent as the FC crowd are not used to the locked servers and the DCS crowd have never complained about it in the past. The community is broken because there is nothing worth playing together. Missions that are usually fun for the DCS people need to be locked or the mission is ruined by JIPs, thats the types of missions I play. So if there was a dynamic campaign where all these fancy planes could be used, without having to code for years, would this not better the community? Or have missions where there is no effect by JIPs, or the success is not ruined by having someone leave in the middle of the flight. If everybody here would think like you, we all would fly in 4 to 8 client locked servers and would get bored immediately, cause the product wouldnt evolve cause of lacking community exchange, hence no further development...till the products dead some day. And not everyone like you has/plays Flaming cliffs. I dont own the series and neither do any of the people I play with. We enjoy high fidelity models, so yeah, I guess thats my choice right? I still dont believe FC3 has any buisness in the DCS world. DCS is a highly accurate simulator. Does not mean my opinion cant change with new missions etc... We will see what the "community" does to fix that. that being said, I would highly recommend guys like you to basically rethink their DCSW MP approach a little. There is no rethinking needed. I am not a bad guy like you want to make me out to be. Anyone who has shown up in my TS to play has had the red mat rolled out to them. I have also gone on other clan's TS to invite them to my server. Just by looking at the number of empty public servers, this should tell you something, and it has nothing to do with the locked servers. Even if I make my server public and lock it for events, it will remain empty until an event rolls around. So guys like you should leave guys like me alone, I have done nothing to anyone here and you dont know me, so you cant say "guys like [me]". 1
Steel Jaw Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Pbishop what VFW are you with? ...I like the cut of your jib. "You see, IronHand is my thing" My specs: W10 Pro, I5/11600K o/c to 4800 @1.32v, 64 GB 3200 XML RAM, Red Dragon 7800XT/16GB.
pbishop Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Pbishop what VFW are you with? ...I like the cut of your jib. We have no VFW, we are just a small group of buddies that enjoy the same type of experience from our flight sims. We dont even have a name for ourselves, but my better half calls us names when we make too much noise (they are not appropriate here though).
Steel Jaw Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Oh well then I think I have flown with you fellas if cobracmdr is among you. "You see, IronHand is my thing" My specs: W10 Pro, I5/11600K o/c to 4800 @1.32v, 64 GB 3200 XML RAM, Red Dragon 7800XT/16GB.
pbishop Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Oh well then I think I have flown with you fellas if cobracmdr is among you. No sorry, I dont think I have ever had the pleasure of flying with you. Maybe one day though.
JABO2009 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Posted November 14, 2012 1.The community is broken because there is nothing worth playing together. Missions that are usually fun for the DCS people need to be locked or the mission is ruined by JIPs, thats the types of missions I play. So if there was a dynamic campaign where all these fancy planes could be used, without having to code for years, would this not better the community? Or have missions where there is no effect by JIPs, or the success is not ruined by having someone leave in the middle of the flight. 2.There is no rethinking needed. I am not a bad guy like you want to make me out to be. 1. : sry but I still dont see your point. We dont have a broken community. Yes, there is kind of split between DCS and FC guys, but nothing wrong with that. Many of them fly both fidelity levels and they enjoy it. You have exactly that kind of "DCS modules is the best/ FC is just crap " attitude which I cant stand / mentioned in the threads first post. These groups co-exist and often share experience together. period. I assume you havent started your first ever flight simming hours in a total hardcore high fidelity cockpit, have you? (maybe this fidelity even existed at this time) you got into this level of detail step by step and now you are enjoying it the hardcore way only. OK. but so do many newcomer pilots here, startin' with the free low fidelity Su25T and then can jump on in every level of detail they want. some go high fidelity, some stay low fid. some try both. FC3 recently filled another gap. just great ! 2 : come on, nobody said you're the bad guy (I simply dont like your attitude), but think before you generally beat on ED/DCS *sh...ty* missions etc. I agree with you there's a high potential to make things better in this area and dynmaic campaigns would have a big impact, but the current situation is by far not as bad as you describe it. and there is NO perfect superduper Flight-Sim out there that overperforms in every scope. ED / DCS has its weak spots, so do have other sims. ED is permanently workin' to make their product better and better and get huge support/respect/ (often constructive) criticism by your so called "broken" community. Intel I7 - 10700 K @ 3,80GHz / 64 GB DDR3 / RTX 3090 / Win 10 Home 64 bit / Logitech X56 HOTAS / HP Reverb G2 Running DCS on latest OB version
SNAFU Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) Isn´t it quite simple? DCS aims for realism and so do many players and members of the community. Puplic multiplayer experience is simply contradicting the realism approach on too many ways, so the guys providing the server, which are looking for realism just keep them locked. Simple, where is the problem? The procedures, the enviroment and all what is ongoing on a public server just kills any immersion, if you are looking for the "realism-immersion" kind of experience. I don´t think is a problem of the software or the mission editor (besides the missing dedicated server issue). From all the mission editors I used, the editor of ED is still the easiest one to use (if there would only be a 3d map for placing of units...) besides the old Il2 1946 edior, if you are not experienced in programming, what you need for ArmaII, CloD etc. Edited November 14, 2012 by SNAFU [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Unsere Facebook-Seite
Grimes Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) Games do exist where players are all on the same public server without everyone on a VOIP client and they are working together doing objectives. DCS is no different. On numerous occasions I've seen a great deal of teamwork displayed among several strangers. Yes the game benefits from players all on the same page working as a single unit trying to do an objective. However the game can still be fun with an open session. This is true particularly with FC as the mix-match of squads and "lonewolfs" on the same battlespace created a pretty dynamic combat environment. Squad pilots would mostly fly together and coordinate heavily while the lonewolfs would be doing their own independent tactics. Besides FC pretty much thrives on public servers. The only complaint I have with FC in the past is that the missions tend to be a little Team Deathmatchy. It provides a great opportunity to learn several aspects of air combat in an unforgiving environment, but I just wish the missions were a little more focus on specific goals. I suppose thats why I am probably going to release such a mission hopefully later this week. :music_whistling: Well, sometimes it is more-less 30% when we take in consideration most players are in Europe and they usually don't enter to servers with ping above 300 ms. Other issue is most open servers use old - already boring - missions. All time over and over the same or put only A-10s in them which is big LOL. As someone who runs one of these servers and has a bad habit of throwing the same old missions up there, I understand your point. Honestly the only defense for it is that we sadly can't run just any mission on an open server. Many of the missions out there simply won't work in a public server, and the missions that do work are designed with public server use in mind from the beginning. Operation Hacienda for example is a great co-op mission that any small group of players should try, but it doesn't exactly work on a public server for a multitude of reasons. Unfortunately the issue of aircraft selection is much much more complex. The more types of aircraft the more stuff needs to get put into the mission which potentially causes frame-rate hits or server instability. Without going the whole "target graveyard" route its hard for me to come up with a scenario that can accommodate every DCS aircraft released so far. This is only going to get worse as more and more modules are added to the sim. Most of the aircraft from the era where a2a missiles started getting introduced can sort of fit within a modern DCS mission, but everything else would be pushing it. To be perfectly honest, I dislike the idea that players should expect every flyable to be available in a given scenario. There are few reasons to put a P-51D in the middle of a massive modern air combat mission with the FC aircraft, I can think of two: 1. Because it might be oddly fun. 2. because we can. Furthermore having as many aircraft types in a single mission is sort of one of those "jack of all trades, but master of none" situations. Sacrifices of one kind or another are made to accommodate the wide variety. Edited November 14, 2012 by Grimes 1 The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world. Current Projects: Grayflag Server, Scripting Wiki Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread) SLMOD, Wiki wishlist, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum
DoctorStrop Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 I have stopped PW protecting my MP server, mainly because I want the variety of different players with different skills. I have not gone for a realistic approach for 2 reasons, first I don't want to, and second it's my server and I don't have to. I also have mustangs integrated in my mission, not that anyone has used them yet. I do think a lot of people don't realise that most of these servers are hosted on home PCs, and are not affiliated with ED at all, and it annoys me when I get comments like "It will be better with labels off", or "the f10 view is sooo lame". It's my server, I added the mission parameters, and I'll play it how I LIKE IT. I've only run the server for a few nights, and have had to ask for info on SAM, and kicking people. (aaa - war.miz) I can totally see why admins PW protect their server. Cheers Andy Windows 10 64bit, Intel i7 6700K, 32GB Corsair 2400Mhz, 970 NVMe 500Gb SSD, GeForce 2080 super, HP Reverb, VKB GF PRO, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster Pendular rudders, Windows + DCS :thumbup: My youtube channel
JABO2009 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Posted November 14, 2012 I have stopped PW protecting my MP server, mainly because I want the variety of different players with different skills. I have not gone for a realistic approach for 2 reasons, first I don't want to, and second it's my server and I don't have to. I also have mustangs integrated in my mission, not that anyone has used them yet. I do think a lot of people don't realise that most of these servers are hosted on home PCs, and are not affiliated with ED at all, and it annoys me when I get comments like "It will be better with labels off", or "the f10 view is sooo lame". It's my server, I added the mission parameters, and I'll play it how I LIKE IT. I've only run the server for a few nights, and have had to ask for info on SAM, and kicking people. (aaa - war.miz) I can totally see why admins PW protect their server. Cheers Andy have you been the A10C guy I flew with yesterday eve? -> CBU attack runs on the T90s? :D Intel I7 - 10700 K @ 3,80GHz / 64 GB DDR3 / RTX 3090 / Win 10 Home 64 bit / Logitech X56 HOTAS / HP Reverb G2 Running DCS on latest OB version
DoctorStrop Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) have you been the A10C guy I flew with yesterday eve? -> CBU attack runs on the T90s? :D It was me. I was dead flukey:joystick: Edited November 14, 2012 by DoctorStrop Windows 10 64bit, Intel i7 6700K, 32GB Corsair 2400Mhz, 970 NVMe 500Gb SSD, GeForce 2080 super, HP Reverb, VKB GF PRO, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster Pendular rudders, Windows + DCS :thumbup: My youtube channel
JABO2009 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Posted November 14, 2012 It was me. I was dead flukey:joystick: :thumbup: was fun.. Intel I7 - 10700 K @ 3,80GHz / 64 GB DDR3 / RTX 3090 / Win 10 Home 64 bit / Logitech X56 HOTAS / HP Reverb G2 Running DCS on latest OB version
Frostie Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 Pbishop what VFW are you with? ...I like the cut of your jib. No sorry, I dont think I have ever had the pleasure of flying with you. Maybe one day though. And it takes a thread like this for you two to realise each other, and yet the penny still doesn't drop. :) "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 51st PVO "BISONS" Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
sparchy Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 It's simple to me. It's my toy and I will play with it however I want.
Winters79 Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 Reason why Im keeping server under password is simple. I don't want anyone come on server and bomb airbase down and giving ppl fps issues or even crash server... I've seen how does people fly in freefly servers. No thanks. Sure there is servermanager to keep bad players out ,but Im too lazy to install it. Will try it someday... :joystick:
pbishop Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) 1. : sry but I still dont see your point. We dont have a broken community. Yes, there is kind of split between DCS and FC guys, but nothing wrong with that. Many of them fly both fidelity levels and they enjoy it. You have exactly that kind of "DCS modules is the best/ FC is just crap " attitude which I cant stand / mentioned in the threads first post. Never said that it was crap, I said I dont like it and it doesnt fit with how I play "MY" game, simply because nobody I fly with has it so there is no point of me adding it to my missions. I assume you havent started your first ever flight simming hours in a total hardcore high fidelity cockpit, have you? (maybe this fidelity even existed at this time) LOL. My first time with a flight sim was a military trainer developed to simulate battlefield commander decisions and their effects on troops. I used to screw around with that as a kid. I also remember fligthsim, falcon, falcon 3 as the sims I grew up with. Jane's was what is comparable to FC today and I loved the sim. Big difference though, go back and play the campaign. You got into this level of detail step by step and now you are enjoying it the hardcore way only. OK. Sorry, just answered that. I also got my pilot's license before I was legally allowed to drive. but so do many newcomer pilots here, startin' with the free low fidelity Su25T and then can jump on in every level of detail they want. some go high fidelity, some stay low fid. some try both. FC3 recently filled another gap. just great ! Yep and I added some to our missions so people who didnt own the module could join us. But FC3 I dont have and have no interest in so I cant add them and test it, and I dont play with people who have it right now. Do you have a server we should know about that catered to these people? 2 : come on, nobody said you're the bad guy (I simply dont like your attitude), My attitude is just fine. I am sick of people telling me what to do with my time, resources, and my money. You have not done anything as far as I can tell to fix the situation but yet you come here and tell all of us what you "feel" we should be doing. Guess what, the internet doesnt care. Run your own server the way you want and get away from this thread. You are not going to change anything here, and you certainly are not making any new friends. ED is permanently workin' to make their product better and better and get huge support/respect/ (often constructive) criticism by your so called "broken" community. I never said they werent, and what I gave was constructive. I gave the problem and a possible solution. You just either praise the flaws or do nothing to correct them. You have done nothing but criticise me here, and tell me what to do with my resources, you sir no longer get my attention. My attitude is this, you have no right to say anything about locked servers unless you have one. Edited November 14, 2012 by pbishop 1
JABO2009 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Posted November 14, 2012 I never said they werent, and what I gave was constructive. I gave the problem and a possible solution. You just either praise the flaws or do nothing to correct them. You have done nothing but criticise me here, and tell me what to do with my resources, you sir no longer get my attention. My attitude is this, you have no right to say anything about locked servers stop with this "you have no right bs arguing", I heard enough from you. keep your "community is broken negative attitude" and do it the way you want.. ehm, and yes: pls lock YOU and your server away from here, we wont miss you. thx. nothing more to add. 1 Intel I7 - 10700 K @ 3,80GHz / 64 GB DDR3 / RTX 3090 / Win 10 Home 64 bit / Logitech X56 HOTAS / HP Reverb G2 Running DCS on latest OB version
pbishop Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) stop with this "you have no right bs arguing", I heard enough from you. keep your "community is broken negative attitude" and do it the way you want.. ehm, and yes: pls lock YOU and your server away from here, we wont miss you. thx. nothing more to add. If it was not broken, would you be here? And I have been saying since the first time I posted here, put your efforts in finding how to make the online servers more interesting and you will have my attention. You have only said unlock the servers, which is rediculous and wont solve anything. When you realise that this is not the solution and want to discuss how we can really better this aspect of the game, give me a call. Until then I will take your advice, as I do not need to listen to any of this. I have tried to explain things from the locked server aspect of things to find a solution, it has fallen on deaf ears. I will lock myself away and continue playing with my buddies and inviting those that want to play with me. I'll just keep it locked though basically to not have my very little time available to enjoy myself destroyed by some idiot who joins. I also dont expect many other locked servers to help you out here either. Edited November 14, 2012 by pbishop
Steel Jaw Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 my very little time available to enjoy myself just to have some idiot join and destroy my night. Again, the root of the matter. "You see, IronHand is my thing" My specs: W10 Pro, I5/11600K o/c to 4800 @1.32v, 64 GB 3200 XML RAM, Red Dragon 7800XT/16GB.
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