FC3 F-15 canopy frame too thick?

[silentbob11]

title says it all,F-15's canopy frame looks super thick from inside the pit, does it look like this in RL or is it just me?

 

SB11

[golfsierra2]

Does it look like this?

 

http://www.funny-potato.com/images/planes/cockpits/f15-cockpit.jpg

[Agg]

The greatest gpu in the world - real life ;)

 

On topic; I was thinking the same thing when I saw the screenshots posted prior to release, but when flying I think it looks good.

[ZMEY-HS-]

Thats because your head is too close to the hud. Lean back, but that way you won't be able to see HUD in full scale, unless you got a trackir.

[silentbob11]

well. it looks like this...

 

[Witchking]

Its just the viewpoint positioning. These cockpits, similar to the new models have been reproduced faithfully and to scale. Just the FOV and the angle that we are viewing it from makes it seem bigger.

[Brun]

If you rotate the view so you're looking directly at the canopy frame, you'll notice it appears much thinner than it does when you're looking straight ahead. It's exactly the same with the A-10C.

 

It seems to be an anomaly of 3D graphics that things appear to change size depending on their distance between the centre and edge of the view. My day job is 3D, and I just knocked up a very quick example in my software of choice (modo) and it shows exactly the same thing. If anyone here has max/maya they could easily see the same thing.

 

I'm guessing this is because the image we see is rendered on a 2D plane, which means the edges are further away than the centre. It's easy enough to correct this with an appropriate lens distortion. No idea whether this is possible in realtime though.

[Mnemonic]

I'm guessing this is because the image we see is rendered on a 2D plane, which means the edges are further away than the centre. It's easy enough to correct this with an appropriate lens distortion. No idea whether this is possible in realtime though.

This is have to do with camera frustum. The way how it's built creates such anomalies they are not noticeable with small FOV (zoomed in), but more profound with wide FOV (zoomed out), it's basically in every game.

[Cali]

Looks fine to me, I was able to play around in a F-15E one night at work.

[Nedum]

The Canopy is too close at the Pilot Face.

Or:

the Canopy Frame itself is too fare away from the HUD and the display console.

 

 

 

 

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/488...it20night1.jpg

 

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k204/pilot5131/F-15A20Eagle.jpg

 

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/awa01/001-100/awa020-F-15C/images_Danny_Deters/F-15E_01.jpg

 

The ingame view doesnt fit with the original view.

The HUD and the console are too small compared to the Canopy Frame.

I have always the feeling the Compass will poke into my eyes.

 

Sorry for my bad english.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Nedum

[silentbob11]

thing is...

 

I have to be this close in order to see what's happening in the RADAR MFD. get too far - and you cannot see details, not to mention controlling the designtor with the HAT switch.

 

SB11

[Nedum]

Look at this video and you will see the difference.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZESIsgZBl3Q

[gear_monkey]

This is a show stopper for me. Look at videos people are posting while flying the FC3 F-15.

 

That canopy rail is incredibly distorted and looks horrible! It is WAY too thick.

 

I was ready to pull the trigger and buy this until I watched some user posted videos.

 

Sorry, that is more than I can take...it is so distracting its unplayable for me.

[Cali]

Well, gear monkey you are going to be missing out on some fun. Guess it's hard for you to play any games cause there is something wrong with them all.

[theGozr]

The problem is ( same as RoF and CLoD ) the 3D cockpit is build around a wrong pilot eyes position.. The pilots are always too far back.. like having the eyes and neck inside the seat.. They need to give the right infos to the 3D modeler and correct ALL the aircraft.

[silentbob11]

it's weird because in FC/FC2 the F-15 canopy frame was O.K. although a bit crude in it's design. what made them change it to its currant state is beyond me...

 

SB11

[Brun]

^^^ I suspect gear_monkey was being sarcastic.

 

Mine and Mnemonic's posts above explain exactly what causes this. The fact that the FC2 cockpit was fine is because that was 2D. Compare the A-10A and A-10C cockpits and you'll see the same issue.

 

One thing worth pointing out is that the distortion that causes the frame to appear thicker towards the edges of the screen doesn't actually obscure anything outside the aircraft, since that's distorted in exactly the same way. I can appreciate it's a bit annoying, but I don't think there's gonna be any option other than just dealing with it.

[gear_monkey]

Well, gear monkey you are going to be missing out on some fun. Guess it's hard for you to play any games cause there is something wrong with them all.

 

I think the only thing I will be missing out on is the claustraphobic feeling of sitting under a canopy rail that is too thick.

 

To me it is a huge visual distraction. Maybe the youtube videos add to this effect. The HUD looks like a tiny window sitting under a gigantic metal rainbow.

Edited November 16, 2012 by gear_monkey

[gear_monkey]

^^^ I suspect gear_monkey was being sarcastic.

 

Mine and Mnemonic's posts above explain exactly what causes this. The fact that the FC2 cockpit was fine is because that was 2D. Compare the A-10A and A-10C cockpits and you'll see the same issue.

 

One thing worth pointing out is that the distortion that causes the frame to appear thicker towards the edges of the screen doesn't actually obscure anything outside the aircraft, since that's distorted in exactly the same way. I can appreciate it's a bit annoying, but I don't think there's gonna be any option other than just dealing with it.

 

Thanks for you input on why this is happening...I just can't do the "oh well, it's distracting but let's put up with it".

 

With your knowledge of 3D rendering, isn't there something to be done about this?

[Brun]

Appears you weren't being sarcastic, my apologies (and to Cali as well) :)

 

This is something that's very easy to correct in CG rendered graphics. Most software has lens distortion built-in, but it's also very easy to do in post-production (photoshop, after effects etc).

 

I don't know all that much about realtime rendering, but am fairly certain it can be done these days. What I don't know is things like which direct x version might be required, or hardware, or how significant a performance hit it has.

 

Just in case anyone's interested in a more thorough explanation, take a look at attached image. The nine cubes are arranged in the same plane. We know that this means that the ones at the edges are actually further from the camera than the one in the centre, and the ones in the corners slightly further away still. Two things to note about the realtime 3D view on the right: Firstly, the lack of perspective is obvious. Secondly, despite the difference in distance between the different cubes and the camera, all the front faces of the cubes are rendered exactly the same size. Because you see the same size front face, plus the sides/top/bottom etc., the cubes not in the centre appear bigger.

 

On the left, the rendered image has a lens distortion applied which adds perspective to the ones in the corners, making it much more like what you'd see through a real camera. It should also be noticeable that all the cubes appear to be a much more similar size.

[ZaltysZ]

This is have to do with camera frustum. The way how it's built creates such anomalies they are not noticeable with small FOV (zoomed in), but more profound with wide FOV (zoomed out), it's basically in every game.

 

To be precise, this is because of rectilinear perspective, which is used in almost all games as it has an advantage in keeping straight lines straight, and so it is pretty natural. Unfortunately, it also gets things stretched and enlarged at the edges of image.

 

There you can see alternatives, and what distortions they give:

 

Note: Standard = rectilinear.

[Brun]

It would be interesting to get it as an option, that way people could use whichever felt most natural to them. The only really obvious straight line from the cockpit of a combat aircraft will generally be the horizon, and you'd only ever notice that being bent if it was at the top of the screen.

 

I'll try and capture a video over the weekend and put it through post to see what it would look like. Should be interesting.

[badger66]

I work on airplanes , and this structure looks madly over exagerated to me .

[Brun]

Managed a video. Surprising what you can accomplish on a Friday night when you don't drink too much. The first 15 seconds is straight out of DCS, the second half has a lens correction in after effects. If you notice how much the thickness of the frame seems to change when the view pans around the cockpit, you should be able to spot that it doesn't happen in the corrected version, or at least to nowhere near the same extent.

 

One thing I didn't anticipate is the way it makes whatever is in the centre of the screen appear bigger. This is interesting from a gameplay perspective (pardon the pun) cos it makes whatever you're looking at (for example the HUD) much clearer, yet your overall field of vision is still comparable to the uncorrected version.

 

One caveat is that there seems to be a noticeable fish-eye effect. It's difficult to know what this would mean when actually flying, some people might be fine with it but others could be throwing up in a bucket after a few minutes.

 

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[robert123456]

Interesting, at first it looks like it looses some depth and yes i felt a dizziness like effect at first. After watching a couple of times it looks like something that with some work an testing could make it even better.