Western biased .

[LostOblivion]

The environment I am talking about is essentially everything that is decoupled from the A-10C as a whole. In other words, all the things that would have been done anyway had they swapped out the development of the A-10C with any other aircraft. The list of features, bugfixes, and changes that have been made, not in relation to a specific aircraft, but to the general environment, is significant, and until we got seperate patch notes for DCSW many people considered it part of the A-10C or individual products. My point is that third party developers is dependent on ED for making these improvements to the game and thus spend no, or little time on them themselves compared to when ED release a quality product, giving them more time to develop their aircrafts.

 

If that makes sense...

 

Lost

[badger66]

Look people for God sake .

 

Im just pointing out that it would be good if the red side had a DCS level aircraft to play about with .

 

Is there something wrong with suggesting that ?

 

Instead I get people telling me I should be greatful , and that we dont need a DCS aircraft for the red side ..... and another saying who cares .

 

Im just trying to find out a reasonable answer from people who are in the know .

 

I apologise for bringing up this subject . I didnt expect that it would be pointed out to me that I am an ungrateful wretch .

 

So , thank you to the people who took their time to answer a reasonable question , with a reasonable answer ..... as for the rest of you ..... hope you play blue .

 

Bignewy pointed out that RAZBAM have a Mig-29 posted on their facebook page , so there is hope . Thank you for pointing that out mate :)

[ishtmail]

I for one didn't say I don't WANT a russian plane. I do, very much. I'd love a DCS Su35. But I understand why in the near future ED can't and won't venture into that, the reasons have been stated already (lack of information, secrecy around the red defense industry, economic viability of a russian plane versus a western one (how many people would buy it), and ofcourse time).

 

ED is more than well aware of which planes the community would like to fly, and they will do their best to accomodate as many wishes as possible, according to several factors:

1. which airplane does the COMMUNITY want the most?

2. CAN they do a specific airplane at all?

3. is there enough available INFORMATION on that airplane?

 

Complaining about the lack of some airplanes won't make the process any faster. The community has already spoken and the majority wants a western fast mover. Info on those planes is available, and it's easier to get permission to model a western plane. It seems that all the pros go to a western plane.

 

This has nothing to do with balance between red and blue. This has everything to do on what ED can do at all, and with what the community wants.

 

And again, ED has no real control over 3rd party developers. Complaining about those projects being western biased, and then saying it's DCS that's western biased, that's a bit heavy. Noone is forcing you to buy 3rd party airplanes.

[LostOblivion]

There will eventually come a time when, also from a marketing point of view, there will be great value in making an eastern aircraft, as the game will not be "complete" if every player ends up playing for the western side. This time is not now, but it will eventually come. I'm assuming ED will model a Russian aircraft after the next big module.

 

Edit: This time is not now because there is usually enough people on both sides in multiplayer (based on my own observations, naturally).

[badger66]

Mig-29 cant be that hard , as the secrecy went out the window when Germany re-united for a start .

[Eight Ball]

 

Just from these numbers, what would be the most logical course of action for ED? Developing an airplane that would interest 300 people, or developing one that over 2000 people would buy?

 

Polls should be taken for what they are...polls

 

A few years ago if someone had created a poll to know which aircraft people would like to fly the most I highly doubt the warthog would have shown up in the top 3.

But still, it seems DCS:A-10C was a comercial success (as much as it can be).

 

Right now, with the lack of diversity, almost any aircraft would be a guaranteed success. 3rd party devs should grab that oppurtunity as much as possible.

 

But yeah, c0ff pretty much answered the question as far as ED is concerned.

 

Does purchasing a DCS airplane make you eligible to complain about the lack of new Russian planes? It does not.

This kind of answer really aren't helping.

YES, being a faithfull current and future customer allows you to voice your opinion

There are some unwritten rules between a company and its customers, everything doesn't need to be written down in a contract.

Anybody whos dealing with customers on a daily basis knows that.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Eight Ball

[badger66]

And again, ED has no real control over 3rd party developers. Complaining about those projects being western biased, and then saying it's DCS that's western biased, that's a bit heavy. Noone is forcing you to buy 3rd party airplanes.

 

 

DCS is biased ..... P-51 , and A-10C , plus all the DCS talk about new 3rd party projects , with no talk of DCS red stuff . Kindly explain how that isnt biased ?

 

I said DCS was biased , not ED .

[ishtmail]

DCS is biased ..... P-51 , and A-10C , plus all the DCS talk about new 3rd party projects , with no talk of DCS red stuff . Kindly explain how that isnt biased ?

 

I said DCS was biased , not ED .

 

The thing is, you're complaining to ED, not to 3rd party devs who made their own decisions as to which planes they will model.

 

And currently, DCS World is VERY even, as far as East and West are concerned.

 

West:

A10C

P51D

 

East:

Ka-50

Su25T

 

You can scrap the Su25T, as it's not a DCS fidelity plane, but on the other hand you can also scrap P51D, as it's not a modern combat plane, suitable for a modern battlefield.

 

You're left with Ka50 and A10C, both DCS quality.

 

Is that not even enough?

"Oh, but I'm not flying helicopters" one might say. Irrelevant. There are two serious modern combat DCS modules out there, one is US, the other is Russian. That's pretty even in my view.

 

 

Let's say, for instance, that the next DCS module happens to be a russian fast mover. That's a bit hypothetical, but still, let's try it.

All of a sudden, you have one russian helicopter, one russian fighter jet, and to oppose it you have one US slow moving tank buster.

Would that be even?

 

 

Also, from all the 3rd party projects, which ones are closest to completion? Yep, a russian Mig 21.

[Teknetinium]

Of course it is ok to ask, in fact I think you've answered the question yourself. Less potential sales and difficulty in obtaining information.

 

Nate

 

 

You have no pove on that, if so show me that F-15 would sell better then Su-27!!!!!

F-15E is like a open book. (I suppose a lot in DCS is from qualified assumptions when you are compering aircraft to aircraft). LOL.(is where the BIAS come to play).

 

Im sure if ED had the will to make Su-27SM they would. But since they are closer to Western birds and info, they choose to do that since that will save time and money. Anyway time will show where this will end up.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Teknetinium

[arteedecco]

Yeah, I really don't care which direction they go, if there is or isn't a bias... it will be cool to have a new high-fidelity aircraft to fly that is a fighter (not ground-pounder).

 

A modern Eastern plane would be sweet because in my experience we get a lot more attention to the Western planes than we do of the Eastern ones and I love the Russian fighters.

 

But hell, I'm stoked for the F-15C too! I get pretty tired of being lectured to on these forums about which things do and don't make commercial sense. I love high-fidelity combat flight sims and this is the best one I've ever had the pleasure of flying. Unless you work at ED and sit with the teams that make these decisions, you frankly don't know what you are talking about and should probably not pose your opinions as if you were an expert. Stick to what you do know, what you dream about, what is awesome to you, and support the other people on this forum when they share about things they are excited about and love! ED will filter, read, and do what they deem best. Keep giving them your money if you like what they do... otherwise don't.

 

Give people a break, it's not always easy to communicate perfectly in a forum post :)

 

Also, mission designers can easily make Red and Blue, player-flyable A-10Cs, so if you want a balanced mission, it is possible. Sure.. it would be great if you had an Su or Mig, but hey... that's what some of these 3rd parties are working on. And as far as I'm concerned... as soon as any 3rd party aircraft is available, I'm probably gonna buy it and keep flying it as long as it is done well and to a similar fidelity of the A-10C, because it is fun!

 

Cheers everyone!

[ishtmail]

You have no pove on that, if so show me that F-15 would sell better then Su-27!!!!!

 

Proof has been given several times.

 

On this exact forum, a poll was done separately for eastern aircraft and separately for western aircraft.

Less than 300 people voted in the 'eastern' poll. Over 2000 voted in the 'western' poll. This is proof enough that there is more interest in the community for a western fighter.

 

 

But then again, 'polls are just polls and mean squat', as the opinion goes...

[Nate--IRL--]

You have no pove on that, if so show me that F-15 would sell better then Su-27!!!!!

F-15E is like a open book. (I suppose a lot in DCS is from qualified assumptions when you are compering aircraft to aircraft). LOL.(is where the BIAS come to play).

 

Im sure if ED had the will to make Su-27SM they would. But since they are closer to Western birds and info, they choose to do that since that will save time and money. Anyway time will show where this will end up.

 

I don't have to prove it. ED and/or the 3rd party devs have to conduct their own research and make a business decision themselves. Basically the market research done by these companies dictates what gets built.

 

I would be of the opinion that there is a market for something like the Su-27, but is it bigger than say an F-16? That is a simple choice for a Dev. However the problem with this approach is the situation of 2xF-15Es being developed, which in my opinion is absurd.

 

Nate

Edited November 26, 2012 by Nate--IRL--

[Teknetinium]

Proof has been given several times.

 

On this exact forum, a poll was done separately for eastern aircraft and separately for western aircraft.

Less than 300 people voted in the 'eastern' poll. Over 2000 voted in the 'western' poll. This is proof enough that there is more interest in the community for a western fighter.

 

 

But then again, 'polls are just polls and mean squat', as the opinion goes...

 

Make it in same poll, that is misleading. I tried but the poll was closed by moderators :)

 

Dont worry 3d party are working on PAK FA as well. I was talking about ED.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Teknetinium

[arteedecco]

...

However the problem with this approach is the situation of 2xF-15Es being developed, which in my opinion is absurd.

 

Nate

 

Yeah, that's one "problem" with the 3rd party approach. You end up with two solutions each of which have pluses and minuses, when they would actually do much better merging efforts into one and combining strengths in a single offering.

 

Course, like many others have already opined, an F-15E without a human-playable back-seat in multiplayer is a pretty significant setback.

[badger66]

Well , I reckon it will be the end for one of those teams , cuz as sure as hell , there will be differances , and the masses will choose the best one , what happens to the team who has spent a ton of cash , when the opposition sim is better ?

[LostOblivion]

Please close this thread, or start behaving.

[Eihort]

I'm starting to notice more and more that people are willing to give ED a free pass on certain transgressions since they're the only game in town when it comes to modern military flight sims. If other companies in other more crowded generes operated the same way, they couldn't get away with it.

[Krebs20]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1615484#post1615484

 

Give it time. Every aircraft will have a turn.

[BHawthorne]

ED only has so much manpower. If ED dropped everything else this second and spent the next 1.5 years working on an DCS quality Russian fixed wing, you'd magically have a thread 10 pages long in here stating that ED has an Eastern bias and that they're located in Moscow. It's up to the 3rd parties to put the manpower out there towards Russian hardware...and for that matter Western hardware.

[ishtmail]

I'm starting to notice more and more that people are willing to give ED a free pass on certain transgressions since they're the only game in town when it comes to modern military flight sims. If other companies in other more crowded generes operated the same way, they couldn't get away with it.

 

Transgressions?

The only transgressions I see might be the delays on some things, which are understandable considering the highest fidelity ED is making their stuff in. And long delays are normal even in other gaming branches. Duke Nukem 4ever anyone?

 

Bugs are normal for any type of software. The game of the year, Skyrim, was initially so buggy that it was almost unplayable.

 

Everything else is at ED's discretion, just like any other PC game developer out there. I don't see Valve taking orders on which weapons to model in their next first person shooter. I don't see Treyarch asking the community which city to demolish in the next CoD game.

 

With DCS, you get what you payed for: a perfected simulation of a single aircraft. Have you ever received less than that?

[BHawthorne]

I'm starting to notice more and more that people are willing to give ED a free pass on certain transgressions since they're the only game in town when it comes to modern military flight sims. If other companies in other more crowded generes operated the same way, they couldn't get away with it.

 

Transgressions? You mean like EA with BF series and Activision with CoD series? Those are the true transgressors. You guys really crack me up with this misperception that ED is doing bad things to you. Other companies would spend 500 million dollars on marketing and hope you didn't notice that CoD 45 is the same game as CoD 20.

[lunaticfringe]

Make it in same poll, that is misleading.

 

This is what is referred to in the West as "grasping at straws"; perhaps you've heard the term used before.

 

The fact that only 300 people cared to respond to an Eastern block poll, versus over 2000 for its West counterpart, speaks volumes as to interest. Simply putting the two polls together would likely trend badly for the Eastern types, as based on the sample set you've got 1700 souls who could care less about post-Soviet hardware, and whatever overlap between the votes could only *take* from Mikoyan and Sukhoi types.

 

But those are factual statistics and trending in limited sample. Child's play versus what Eagle has at their disposal.

 

All of this banter about bias in development choices completely forgets the fact ED doesn't simply offer up polls asking for suggestions and favorites; they pay good money to have data they glean from the sales of their products, from packet sniffing, from QA/error reporting, credit card records, IP tracking, and a host of other methods, analyzed to help make their decisions for them. The data tells them where their products are selling, to what age groups, what amount of time being spent using their software, and most importantly- which aircraft are being flown the most.

 

Which is to say complaints (that are merely opinions based on circumstantial evidence) are effectively moot when it comes to the data and information they have available on the subject matter of what would sell the best for them, and what options for aircraft they have the greatest access to information for.

[Cali]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1615484#post1615484

 

Give it time. Every aircraft will have a turn.

 

Yes they will, but it will be many years down the road. Also....polls speak for themselves and more people were interested in what?

Edited November 27, 2012 by Cali

[badger66]

With DCS, you get what you payed for: a perfected simulation of a single aircraft. Have you ever received less than that?

 

Grow up ..... you dont get a perfected simulation at all ..... how in the name of Jesus can you say that with the number of updates after the boxed product .

 

And if your not online ..... good day to you .

 

Dont get me wrong , but your out on a limb here saying its a perfect simulation my friend .

 

I realise its getting better all along .

 

Perfect = works as advertised ..... really !!!

Edited November 27, 2012 by badger66

[Mainstay]

I would just like to point out that this poll http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=92269

was made alot later then the western one so you cant really compare the results due time of posting difference and also threads like these are getting kinde lost since the forum has grown alot since then and its getting harder for people to find stuff.