R-27 missile launch of an Su-27

[Kuky]

I thought this would be helpful to tweak the sim into more realistic missile launch way as I noticed in this video the R-27 which was launched from the wing pylon is dropped first, the nose tip fals downwards, then as engine ignites the missile guides onto target. In sim we have R-27 firing straight off the pylon like heat seeking missiles. I am wondering if this could be corrected? Thoughts?

 

video is this one... launch is at 0:22sec

[Cali]

That would be nice if they could fix it.

[Boberro]

I am surprised it still hasnąt been fixed in FC3 when in FC 1 launch sequence was correct.

 

Now we have AFM missiles so its launch animation sequence should be corrected in much more way.

Let's give ED time for this task.

[GGTharos]

This is something for the future - an advanced autopilot/guidance system (I mean advanced in terms of programming by comparison to what we have now). It is not trivial and you shouldn't expect to see such a thing too soon.

[Cali]

I'm sure, they are working on a lot of things and some things are more important.....but you never know.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Cali

[Alfa]

I thought this would be helpful to tweak the sim into more realistic missile launch way as I noticed in this video the R-27 which was launched from the wing pylon is dropped first, the nose tip fals downwards, then as engine ignites the missile guides onto target. In sim we have R-27 firing straight off the pylon like heat seeking missiles. I am wondering if this could be corrected? Thoughts?

 

Its a little more complicated than that Kuky.

 

You need to consider that there are two lauchers available for the R-27 range of missiles:

 

- The APU-470 rail launcher for MiG-29 and wing stations on Su-27.

 

- The AKU-470 ejector launcher for fuselage stations on Su-27

 

....and that:

 

- The IR homing variants(R-27T/TE) can only use the APU-470 rail launcher.

 

- The radar guided variants(R-27R/RE) can use both the AKU-470 ejector rack as well as the APU-470 rail launcher.

 

- The APU-470 rail launcher can only be used on two wing stations - stations 3 & 8 on Su-27 and stations 3 & 10 on Su-33(see attached images)

 

- The AKU-470 ejector launcher can be used on both fuselage and wing stations.

 

Some Flanker variants(such as the Su-33, Su-35 and Su-30MK) have an extra set of wing pylons and due to their proximity to the engine ducts it is probably necessary to use the AKU-470 rack for the R-27R/RE. To me the Flanker in the footage looks like an Su-30MK variant launching an R-27R from one of those extra wing points.

[Kuky]

Thanks for explanation Alfa, I figured this one out also few days after while searching for close up images of pylons on Su-27... the Su-27 in video does actually has 4 pylons on wings, one of which is ejector type (AKU-470) and I didn't know this at time of my post.

 

cheers

[Alfa]

Ok but you are still right about the issue :) .

 

The Su-33 also has those extra stations and should be using ejection launch(AKU-470 rack) from them, but doesn't in the game(well not in FC2 anyway).

 

For the Su-27 the game representation is correct.

 

For the Su-30 its a little more complicated - the model in the game only has 10 stations, which was correct for the initial pure interceptor variant, but in the game it is depicted as a multirole variant(range of armament) - and AFAIK both the upgraded(Su-30KN) as well as the new built Su-30MK have 12 stations.

 

Anyway, since the launch sequence in the game is different for fuselage-(ejection) and wing stations(rail), while the weapon IDs are the same, it must mean that the launch logic is "hardcoded" for each station/aircraft type.

 

So its probably not something we(community) can correct.

[volk]

Четвертым пилоном Су-33 может быть как АКУ-470 с катапультным стартом:

так и АПУ-470 с рельсовым сходом:

В любом случае, чтобы точно ответить на вопрос, необходимо иметь руководство по летной эксплуатации Су-33.

Edited January 6, 2013 by volk

[Alfa]

так и АПУ-470 с рельсовым сходом:

 

But the rack in this photo is also AKU-470 - not APU-470 :)

 

Another photo attached.

[volk]

But the rack in this photo is also AKU-470 - not APU-470 :)

Да, это больше похоже на АКУ, я ошибся. В любом случае, т. к. пилоны съемные, нужна документация (РЛЭ), чтобы ответить на вопрос: может ли быть 4 пилоном АПУ или нет.

[Alfa]

Да, это больше похоже на АКУ, я ошибся. В любом случае, т. к. пилоны съемные, нужна документация (РЛЭ), чтобы ответить на вопрос: может ли быть 4 пилоном АПУ или нет.

 

Yes I agree.

 

But given that rail type launchers are generally prefered on wing stations, I think its a fair assumption that the reason why all the photos of the fourth station shows AKU-470 is because this station is too close to engine inlets for safe use of APU-470.

[USAFMTL]

But the rack in this photo is also AKU-470 - not APU-470 :)

 

Another photo attached.

 

Nice rack. :D

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

В любом случае, чтобы точно ответить на вопрос, необходимо иметь руководство по летной эксплуатации Су-33.

 

That is a very peculiar looking radome on those red missiles? I wonder why? :)

[GGTharos]

The red missiles are just props, Hajduk ...

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

The red missiles are just props, Hajduk ...

I thought that Red missiles are fully functional, without explosive charge. White ones with no stripes are dummies. And white one with stripes are electronically functional but without a functioning motor and explosive charge.

[HungaroJET]

I thought this would be helpful to tweak the sim into more realistic missile launch way as I noticed in this video the R-27 which was launched from the wing pylon is dropped first, the nose tip fals downwards, then as engine ignites the missile guides onto target. In sim we have R-27 firing straight off the pylon like heat seeking missiles. I am wondering if this could be corrected? Thoughts?

 

video is this one... launch is at 0:22sec

 

@ 0:22 looks like an ingame original old Su-30 model but with inner wing pylons No 4 & 10, dont you think ?

unfortunately the video is low-res , so what do you think which pilon was the launcher ?

No. 3 or 4 ?

unfortunately at present (AFAIK) the launch behaviour is pylon specified and not missile specified

so if we change launch process on pylons No. 3 & 8 on Su-27/30 (3, 4 & 9, 10 on Su-33/34) from rail to ejector then all weapons (missiles) will be ejected: R-73 also

[Kuky]

^^^

yes, that video is of an Su-30 that has extra pair of pylons on the wings (compared to base Su-27). The video is firing an R-27 of that ejector pylon not a rail type, but in game we don't have this on Su-27... but do have it on Su-33, so Su-33 should have this wing pylon corrected (pylon 4 and 9)

[HungaroJET]

Would you like to have an exta pair of wing pylons for Su-27 and Su-30 ? :)

I wrote it to my todo-list :P ...Gimme Just A Little More Time :music_whistling:

Otherwise if you need ejector-pylons on your Su-33/34 then open Su-33/34.lua in ...\Scripts\Database\Planes and edit these:

pylon(4, 0,... ---> pylon(4, 1,...

and

pylon(9, 0,... ---> pylon(9, 1,...

;)

[Alfa]

Otherwise if you need ejector-pylons on your Su-33/34 then open Su-33/34.lua in ...\Scripts\Database\Planes and edit these:

pylon(4, 0,... ---> pylon(4, 1,...

and

pylon(9, 0,... ---> pylon(9, 1,...

;)

 

Good catch Hungaro! :)

 

I always thought the launch method was "hardcoded" for each pylon position, but the above simple edit does indeed work.

 

Mind you - if I am right that the ejector rack is needed for the R-27R/ER on those two positions due to their proximity to the engines, then other "straight launching" weapon types such as the rocket pods should probably be made incompatible with these stations.

 

Would you like to have an exta pair of wing pylons for Su-27 and Su-30 ?

 

Well not for the Su-27 - that would be unrealistic. For the Su-30 it would be ok since, as I mentioned earlier, the Su-30 version in the sim seems depict as an upgraded one(with guided PGMs), which AFAIK does have those extra wing stations.

 

However, it does present a problem since the original Su-30 3D model comes with fixed pylons, so to make it look right you would also need to make new rack/weapons entries....and a separate AKU-470 model for the purpose.

[HungaroJET]

TY JJ

 

....so to make it look right you would also need to make new rack/weapons entries....and a separate AKU-470 model for the purpose.

 

Yes, i was thinking about the same ^

Or moreover: i will remove all wing pylons so we will able to put on ordnance with proper APU/AKU rack

 

Well not for the Su-27 - that would be unrealistic.

 

These are Su-27SM and SM3 but got interesting pylons/racks

 

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia---Air/Sukhoi-Su-27SM3/1954232/L/&sid=96f9ef5e9825970720442d3d1370659e

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia---Air/Sukhoi-Su-27SM/1879828/L/&sid=96f9ef5e9825970720442d3d1370659e

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia---Air/Sukhoi-Su-27SM/2170473/L/&sid=96f9ef5e9825970720442d3d1370659e

Edited February 8, 2013 by HungaroJET

[Alfa]

 

Yes, i was thinking about the same ^

Or moreover: i will remove all wing pylons so we will able to put on ordnance with proper APU/AKU rack

 

I did that once(for 3GO's Su-27 model) - made different combos with R-27 missiles/custom made APU-470 and AKU-470 racks(a lot of work), but ran into a problem with the rocket pods, because it wasn't possible to do rack/weapon combos with these(already a combo by itself) in the .lua files.

 

The only solution would be to make new rocket container models with the suspension rack attached, but then these would have to overwrite the stock ones, which in turn would be a problem for other aircraft using the same weapons...so I don't know.

 

These are Su-27SM and SM3 but got interesting pylons/racks:

 

Yes but these are different variants to the "baseline" Su-27S we have in the sim now :) .

 

The rack on the inner wing station(first pic) looks like an AKU-58M(universial rack for heavy ASMs) - the next station has a dual rack for rocket pods, which has been displayed on the Su-33 previously(see attached image).