Missile Dynamics - A discussion

[SESova]

Sova while I admire your passion for ideas the 51st will not fly without F-15's on the server. Every aircraft has its pros and cons, this for me is part of the experience and enjoyment in DCS/FC.

 

The Flankers represented in FC are underdogs on the BVR stage compared to a more advanced F-15C version, this is how it should be, maybe if we had Su-27SM with TWS and RVV-AE then things would be better. When it comes down to WVR the aces should be in the Flankers hands and they are for the most part in FC2.

 

With updates to FC3 coming along such as a real TWS multi launch function for the MiG-29S the whole East v West battle will become a slightly tougher environment for F-15's.

 

IMO having F-15's, Flankers and Fulcrums on the same side in the server is what adds to the enjoyment especially not knowing if you're facing an F-15 or Ukrainian Fulcrum or Flanker, this is how it will remain unless the Eagle adopts freakin laser beams on their freakin heads. When FC3 is final we should be able to develop some more interesting missions.

 

Can you give me any reson why vould we support this kind situation development and even pay for it?

[FLANKERATOR]

New 6 DOF cockpits could have been an excellent opportunity to introduce newer versions like the Su-27SM for instance. I assume converting a cockpit to 6 DOF standards means working almost from scratch so I'm wondering whether it would have been a feasible option for ED. FC3 with flyables like Su-27SM/Su30, MiG-29SMT or F-15C Golden Eagle sounds cool though :)

[Jona33]

Can you give me any reson why vould we support this kind situation development and even pay for it?

 

Because they're improving it...?

[SESova]

Because they're improving it...?

Realy?When that has happend?

[Cali]

Sova while I admire your passion for ideas the 51st will not fly without F-15's on the server. Every aircraft has its pros and cons, this for me is part of the experience and enjoyment in DCS/FC.

 

The Flankers represented in FC are underdogs on the BVR stage compared to a more advanced F-15C version, this is how it should be, maybe if we had Su-27SM with TWS and RVV-AE then things would be better. When it comes down to WVR the aces should be in the Flankers hands and they are for the most part in FC2.

 

With updates to FC3 coming along such as a real TWS multi launch function for the MiG-29S the whole East v West battle will become a slightly tougher environment for F-15's.

 

IMO having F-15's, Flankers and Fulcrums on the same side in the server is what adds to the enjoyment especially not knowing if you're facing an F-15 or Ukrainian Fulcrum or Flanker, this is how it will remain unless the Eagle adopts freakin laser beams on their freakin heads. When FC3 is final we should be able to develop some more interesting missions.

 

Glad to hear that the 51st will still be the 51st. I didn't think you guys would change, but you never know. Taking away 15's from a server is just going to have less people flying in it. As we get more updates and features things will get better.

 

 

We have missiles introduced in 2001 (aim-120C), If missions are design to have EWR and AWAC Su-27 becomes very deadly, In RL I would assume Su-27 dont need EWR o AWAC to use data link witch would put F-15 from 1985 in deep shit whit out data link if there was no support from EWR or AWACS.

 

So we should ask for data link whit out of support of awac or ewr, witch I believe would not be so fun for F-15C from 1985 against Su-27S in 4vs4 clash.

 

Tek, you are forgetting all the features the F-15 doesn't have. Features that it had before 1985. Take the Aim-120C away, maybe they should have never added it in the 1st place.

 

 

Can you give me any reson why vould we support this kind situation development and even pay for it?

 

There are a ton of other combat flight sim companies out there.....the market is booming with new releases coming out almost every few months. :D

[Pyroflash]

The most funyest thing ever spoken here.

Why than AIM 120C will find you at any angle,any altitude,any range,never mind is it TWS lock lost or not,but R 77 wont?

 

And R 27ER is 3 times biger than AIM 120C.You want to say it is done that way just to looks better under the plane wing and it has nothing with fuel quantity,engine power....?

 

1. The AIM-120C's seeker in game is functionally the same as the R-77's. If you choose not to believe me, that is okay, but it doesn't make it any less true.

 

2. It has been acknowledged that the R-27ER has short legs. It has been reported as a bug, and is being looked at as we speak.

 

Knowing this, is there anything else that you would like to add?

[SESova]

Can you give me any reson why vould we support this kind situation development and even pay for it?

 

 

There are a ton of other combat flight sim companies out there.....the market is booming with new releases coming out almost every few months. :D

 

Is this answer Cali? If it is,shud be funy?

[SESova]

Glad to hear that the 51st will still be the 51st. I didn't think you guys would change, but you never know. Taking away 15's from a server is just going to have less people flying in it. As we get more updates and features things will get better.

 

 

In this situation it is not thrue.By Removing F 15 from servers,thay are going to lose few F 15 spamers,but get at least 50 old players,russian jets pilots + other russian plane pilots who dont play becouse F 15 things.Thay also dont bying FC3 becouse of that.

Now,what is better?

Edited January 6, 2013 by =SE=Sova

[SESova]

1. The AIM-120C's seeker in game is functionally the same as the R-77's. If you choose not to believe me, that is okay, but it doesn't make it any less true.

 

2. It has been acknowledged that the R-27ER has short legs. It has been reported as a bug, and is being looked at as we speak.

 

Knowing this, is there anything else that you would like to add?

 

Before we wish to add something,shud fix problems wich allready are present.We have sent a lots of proffs,pictures,tracks,klips...But answer was game of deaf phones.We send the track,answer is send us the track.Or,yea,that might be a problem,but we are not going to fix it,we are working on some other projects...bla bla bla..

We are far from adding new things.

[159th_Viper]

Before we wish to add something,shud fix problems wich allready are present.

 

ALL Community and Tester-identified issues are currently in the process of being rectified. In addition, certain additional features are being implemented to ensure that ALL missiles accord as close as reasonably possible (as far as the engine limitations will allow) to their RL counterparts.

 

You tell me - what more is there to do?

[Krebs20]

You tell me - what more is there to do?

 

Nuke the clown! Wait, ot?

[159th_Viper]

We have sent a lots of proffs,pictures,tracks,klips...But answer was game of deaf phones.We send the track,answer is send us the track.Or,yea,that might be a problem,but we are not going to fix it,we are working on some other projects...bla bla bla...

 

Just checked your input to the FC3 Bug Thread and I note that you have had ZERO input/posts in that thread.

 

So please, if you have any input regarding issues that have not yet been reported and acknowledged then use the FC3 bug thread - that is after all what it is there for. Aiding in identifying issues would certainly be better than upping your post-count through moans and groans.

Edited January 6, 2013 by 159th_Viper
Typos

[Cali]

 

Is this answer Cali? If it is,shud be funy?

 

It was suppose to be funny, that's why I put the little green smiley there :D. Also, it was meant to say that there aren't many flight sim companies out there, especially ones that do what DCS does. I'm not saying go out and buy everything Ed makes, cause I'm not gonna do that. I will buy the aircraft that I will actually fly.

 

 

In this situation it is not thrue.By Removing F 15 from servers,thay are going to lose few F 15 spamers,but get at least 50 old players,russian jets pilots + other russian plane pilots who dont play becouse F 15 things.Thay also dont bying FC3 becouse of that.

Now,what is better?

 

If you think removing the F-15 from servers will bring old players back, then you are living in a fantasy land, cause that isn't gonna happen. From what I have seen in the past and other have seen the same thing. Once you start restricting aircraft and sometimes weapons, people leave that server and go into another. This happen many times on the 104th and 51st servers, that I have seen. At the time those were the busiest servers, until 4c took over. I don't recall 4c having a mission that restricted aircraft or weapons.

[SESova]

Just checked your input to the FC3 Bug Thread and I note that you have had ZERO input/posts in that thread.

 

So please, if you have any input regarding issues that have not yet been reported and acknowledged then use the FC3 bug thread - that is after all what it is there for. Aiding in identifying issues would certainly be better than upping your post-count through moans and groans.

 

Talking abouth Fc 2.0 expirience.As we can see,thinks are the same with FC3.0,so no use.Lets see how many 15 year old noobs you are going to find to by FC3.

[SESova]

It was suppose to be funny, that's why I put the little green smiley there :D. Also, it was meant to say that there aren't many flight sim companies out there, especially ones that do what DCS does. I'm not saying go out and buy everything Ed makes, cause I'm not gonna do that. I will buy the aircraft that I will actually fly.

 

 

 

If you think removing the F-15 from servers will bring old players back, then you are living in a fantasy land, cause that isn't gonna happen. From what I have seen in the past and other have seen the same thing. Once you start restricting aircraft and sometimes weapons, people leave that server and go into another. This happen many times on the 104th and 51st servers, that I have seen. At the time those were the busiest servers, until 4c took over. I don't recall 4c having a mission that restricted aircraft or weapons.

 

Server of the 51 squadron lost "castumers" when 4C has allow active missiles at Su 27.So everybody have rush to spam R 77 hoping thay are going to kill somethink,becouse thay dont know how to make kill with R27ER. All noob where there.That was perfect acasion for F 15 spamers to join the party.

 

No use of this discussion.The one who started is not ready to finish it.He likes more "diplomatic" solution,wich waiting for years,and not gonna come.

So,have fun guys,On the end you did pay for it,i did not.

By.

[159th_Viper]

As we can see,thinks are the same with FC3.0,so no use....

 

The same?

 

Are you shi**ing me?

 

Even if they were the same, are you happy?

 

No?

 

Well then why not change the issues you are unhappy with?

 

Want to?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=96987&page=83

 

Start posting problems/issues not yet reported, please.

[Pilotasso]

Sova, low blow your post was...sir.

Now whos going to ever listen to you? Not the people playing on those servers who happen to also read this forum.

 

Well good riddance.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Pilotasso

[Krebs20]

Back to a missile discussion. I don't remember seeing a list for which missiles now have a AFM. Is it limited to only the player launched ones?

Aim120C

Aim120B

Aim7

Aim9

R77

R27T

R27ET

R27R

R27ER

R73

R60

 

Anything else with a AFM?

[Pyroflash]

Server of the 51 squadron lost "castumers" when 4C has allow active missiles at Su 27.So everybody have rush to spam R 77 hoping thay are going to kill somethink,becouse thay dont know how to make kill with R27ER. All noob where there.That was perfect acasion for F 15 spamers to join the party.

 

No use of this discussion.The one who started is not ready to finish it.He likes more "diplomatic" solution,wich waiting for years,and not gonna come.

So,have fun guys,On the end you did pay for it,i did not.

By.

 

No, you simply fail to accept that your gripes are ACTUALLY being fixed, that some of them aren't even valid, that these 'spammers' are actually fairly easy to defeat, especially with the terrible energy bleeding of the 120's, and that for the most part, this isn't even a problem with experienced F-15C VPilots who have probably learned that SPAMRAMMING isn't an effective tactic, and will at least make them a mission kill.

 

Back to a missile discussion. I don't remember seeing a list for which missiles now have a AFM. Is it limited to only the player launched ones?

Aim120C

Aim120B

Aim7

Aim9

R77

R27T

R27ET

R27R

R27ER

R73

R60

 

Anything else with a AFM?

 

Basically, its only the A-A missiles that got an AFM. IIRC all of the player launched missiles got it, and so did most of the AI ones.

 

Edit: I'll PM you a list in a bit, in addition to adding it on to a post here.

 

Edit#2: The following is a conclusive current list of missiles with AFM, remember, all missile AFM's are a WIP, and are subject to change.

 

R-550

Mica-IR

Mica-RF

Super-530F

R-40T

R-40R

R-24R

R-24T

R-60

R-33

R-27R

R-27ER

R-27T

R-27ET

R-73

R-77

AIM-7M

RIM-7

AIM-9M

AIM-9P

AIM-54C

AIM-120B

AIM-120C

5V55

Edited January 6, 2013 by Pyroflash

[Krebs20]

Maybe I need to start checking the AI launched missiles. Plenty of people testing the player launched ones. Do you know any non player missiles to receive an AFM?

[Exorcet]

AIM-54, R-33, R-24, basically everything air to air.

[Krebs20]

I think I see a custom payload to the f15 coming real soon to get the AI missile a proper rundown. You never know when ED or a 3 party will release a module and this forum will blow up again with x is better than x. I am wondering if the 54 is still acting like god mode. It was a painful thing to dodge in FC2.

[Pyroflash]

I think I see a custom payload to the f15 coming real soon to get the AI missile a proper rundown. You never know when ED or a 3 party will release a module and this forum will blow up again with x is better than x. I am wondering if the 54 is still acting like god mode. It was a painful thing to dodge in FC2.

 

And yes, from what I have tested so far, the AIM-54C does not seem to bleed energy, like, at all, thankfully you have plenty of time to get into the notch when you see an F-14A shoot one at you.

[Cali]

I think I see a custom payload to the f15 coming real soon to get the AI missile a proper rundown. You never know when ED or a 3 party will release a module and this forum will blow up again with x is better than x. I am wondering if the 54 is still acting like god mode. It was a painful thing to dodge in FC2.

 

I thought they were pretty easy to dodge in FC2. They were even easier in FC1, a few high G turns and it was done.

[Teknetinium]

I thought they were pretty easy to dodge in FC2. They were even easier in FC1, a few high G turns and it was done.

 

AIM-54/R-37 are used whit INS as well, Witch should save some energy for the misssile.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Teknetinium