MiG29A/S Tactics?

[Xerxes17]

What are some good engagement profiles for this jet? against F15C you're just screwed due to the AIM120B/C in an open fight. The only thing I've found that works is to get close as possible before rushing in to midrange or better yet, attempting to get into a WVR dogfight where you HMS and R73's will easily bring victory. Even with terrain masking getting close enough for IRST and Thermals ambush is very hard to do especially with the spotty coverage of AWACS.

[Shein]

pretty much the same idea with the su-27, that was just described to me. What I'd like to hear about, is what the R-77 can do for the situation, since that's on the AMRAAM's par and the mig 29 can employ it while the su27 cannot

[Xerxes17]

Well the R77 honestly seems to not bring much to the table as you can only bring enough missiles for 1-2 engagements. Getting in close and using thermals seems to be the most effective way to go.

[FanBoy2006.01]

I can not really add allot here, seeing that I don't fly online and have limited cockpit time nowadays.

 

I am a full-time student again and that means that I have a non-existent budget.

 

I only have FC2 and Black Shark1. No Track-IR. No nothing. Can't wait to finish my studies so I can get all the rest!

 

But this is my unscientific way of flying the MiG 29S.

 

Firstly. MiG29 have low fuel and less missiles than the rest, so I treat it as a point interceptor. Also only take on even or less number of opponents.

 

In head to head BVR. I F-pole. Basically when I get locked up I jettison the drop-tank and go to full burner till I am at Mach 1-ish. I wait till I get launch authority and launch one R77 at max range.

 

To help myself to lose altitude in F-pole maneuver. I first push the stick forward to get my nose pointing downward. Then I break right or left depending to complete f-pole while keeping lock on target. I usually go much lower than my opponent.

 

Of course this is all pretty standard. But I just want to tell you how to do f-pole easily with Russian birds as not to push radar beyond 110º rotating limit (So nose down first, then turn.).

 

When MiG becomes sluggish I go to burner. Hell, I usually just keep it on burner.

 

When bandit's Amraam goes active I break towards it's direction using the SPO RWR. But then (Definitely on burner here.) I start doing a violent scissors maneuver and liberally drop chaff. All the while I am trying to keep radar lock and to remain much lower that my opponent.

 

You can either wait a while and just guess when to launch your second R77 at the bandit (Before his Amraam goes active.). Or you can wait for your your RWR to fall silent. Or you can even let up a little on the scissors with an incoming Amraam and launch and then continue to try and evade! If you get hit by the Amraam you don't have to worry about the fight any more.:doh:

 

Launching the second R77 just before his Amraam goes active would probably be the best.

 

Most (If not all.) of this have been mentioned here many times before.

 

I usually do not even switch on my ECM when doing this.

 

A couple of days ago I did this maneuver without firing back or using ECM. I evaded two Aim 120s and three Aim 9s before I took a third Aamraam in the face while trying to turn to engage the F15 that was at this stage above me.

Where also out of chaff at this stage.

 

Clearly this tactic has some major limitations. But it is a crudely effective way of putting up a fight in a one-on-one head situation against an F15.

 

Being in burner the whole time makes you more vulnerable to IR missiles but you are maneuvering more violently. Also you better end the fight quickly before you run out of fuel.

 

Because of fuel one should use MiG 29 for GCI or only patrol for short periods before returning to base. Trying to compete with the endurance of the Flanker and the Eagle is a sure fire way to get medals (Posthumously.).

 

Lastly, in a dogfight, when launching missiles I try to pull a HUGE amount of lead. Then I ease up on the stick so that the missile don't have to pull allot of launching g and is aimed well ahead of the turning bandit.

 

This will dramatically increase Pk. But if you try this against a human and he see that he is disappearing under your fighter's nose, he can break away without you seeing what he did.

 

This will also not work at very close range.

[Xerxes17]

One thing I have found today is that if you get on the tail of the enemy, immediately switch over to IRST and close in for thermals. With luck they'll think you broke off due to no RWR and you can calmly sneak up to them and hit them out of nowhere.

[Mandrake5]

Use jammer to deny the Eagle an early shot. Fire 1 r77 at max range to force him defensive, drop to the deck, beam/notch on full burner, worm your way closer using hills as cover if poss, use your other R77 or R27ERs at 12-10nm, if he defeats those repeat the 'worming' forwards until in r73 range.

 

If he fires first (watch for him breaking suddenly - TWS shot is likely inbound), turn and drag then notch/beam and re engage, be patient and repeat this to waste his Amraams (chaff at each turn). If he's really high, duck really low as his radar can't look down well and you will be invisible.

 

Difficult to win, but can be done. Much easier with a wingman in a post hole or bracket.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Mandrake5

[danilop]

ARH missiles are behaving rather strange ATM to make a definitive recommendation regarding Mig29 strategy - there is a ton of threads discussing this already.

 

ED said that ARH missiles (Red and Blue) will be "significantly" improved in the imminent patch.

 

We'll see ...

[Crescendo]

Use jammer to deny the Eagle an early shot.

 

In what way does using the jammer deny an early shot? In the real world it might if you have good ECM (F-15 etc), but in FC3 the burn-through range for a jamming contact is many miles beyond Rmax for BVR missiles.

 

I'm willing to learn and be told otherwise, but I mainly fly the F-15 and I can't recall a situation where I've thought "This bandit is denying my shot by jamming."" If a contact is jamming it's not close enough to be worth firing a missile at in almost all circumstances (true high-to-high HOJ shots are rare).

 

In my estimation the jammer is only useful in FC3 for disguising an aspect and height change, that's it. And maybe for denying or breaking a lock in rare circumstances as well. I use the jammer all the time, but it's not because I think it's a great and effective tool. For me, the jammer is just an annoying little hurdle to present to the enemy - who knows, maybe it will cause him to make a mistake or 'scare' him. I don't bet on this, however, because it certainly doesn't scare me and I'm not even that experienced.

[FLANKERATOR]

ECM could be useful when the server is packed and radar screens cluttered, it could let you get closer and surprise your opponent as naturally people pay more attention to clear radar signatures rather than those barely showing behind ECM strobes, radar maniacs wont take the bait though plus you can attract almost anything anytime and you have very little time to react due to reduced SA.

[RIPTIDE]

In what way does using the jammer deny an early shot?

 

 

..........

 

"This bandit is denying my shot by jamming."" If a contact is jamming it's not close enough to be worth firing a missile at in almost all circumstances (true high-to-high HOJ shots are rare).

 

Not so much in FC3 now, but in FC2 a nice spoiler shot could be had from 40miles. With a MiG? Perfect to burn his fuel and make him dance a bit before the main show. :D

[Xerxes17]

Another one is to have someone stay back with the jammer while another powers on ahead in the same line towards the enemy. This way the enemy cannot lock the forward fighter as any attempt to will instead get the rear jammer. That's what happened tonight against some F15C's that kept the A10C's behind them with jammers on. Made it impossible to lock the bastards.

[Frostie]

Another one is to have someone stay back with the jammer while another powers on ahead in the same line towards the enemy. This way the enemy cannot lock the forward fighter as any attempt to will instead get the rear jammer. That's what happened tonight against some F15C's that kept the A10C's behind them with jammers on. Made it impossible to lock the bastards.

In this situation amongst other things you could at least change your heading, beam or extend and crank or just crank, better still with a buddy just make a simple pincer those suckers will soon light up. There are many ways to negate masking.

[Xerxes17]

Oh that's what me and one other did. The other two were just randoms not on TS3 so our overall effectiveness was quite reduced.

 

Actually, could someone do and upload a track showing off how to orthagonal roll effectively? I just can't quite get it to work well.

[SFAL]

Best formula for me is to trick the F15 into a false missile lunch...

False?

since its the mig29s that is capable to eploly the most variation of missiles think how you set it up.

If i fly alone this set up is the best

3R77

1ET

1ER

1R73

with wingman it 2ET on one 2ER on the other..

 

When u see the the rwr coming alive pay attencio to distance... at 12o'clock posittion the enemy is 100km away...

try to find him scaning at 70 out on high freq and look up and down leaving 1-2 sec on each possition...(lag)

DO NOT engage him head on... put him on your 10-2 observe when he gets 60 out he has on radar... at this point start jamming... denying him of a TWS lunch.. he has to go STT or home on jam.. in either case a solid lock is needed...

fire your ER under your LA que...

at this time he had fired likey 2 at you... count 8sec... fire one or 2 R77 and start evading.... run if u have to...

most likey he will push on... thinking that he has defeated your first missile....just to find out he is running into 2 ARH...

 

with a wingman... oh thats a lot more fun :) pincer.. low nose cold while wingman is jamming and is at high altitude... playing it safe.... that u just swap over..

 

on thing dont use the AB unless u have to...

NO AB on take off... in flight go 95% keep a 15degree climb... level out and stay on course... u can stay up there for 50min that way without being engaged...

 

The mig is THE FASTEST jet in game act accoringly

[Xerxes17]

Thanks SFAL, I think you were also showing me the real deal the other day over team-speak :)

 

Edit: Actually, I question the use of the ET on the 29S as the R77 has equal autonomous homing ability but with greater range. The ET looses lock far too often unless you're rear aspect where upon you gotta get really close to them anyway so you might as well use an R73 he if doesn't know you're there or if he does use an R77.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Xerxes17

[Mandrake5]

In what way does using the jammer deny an early shot?

 

 

Jammer off = F15 can lock you and launch missile from approx 25-27nm.

 

Jammer on = approx 18 miles.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Mandrake5

[GGTharos]

With jammer on, it'll burn through at 23 at the latest. Vs a MiG, it'll burn through at 28nm.

 

And there are those of us who know how to estimate range and will launch on you while you're jamming anyway.

 

Jammer off = F15 can lock you and launch missile from approx 25-27nm.

 

Jammer on = approx 18 miles.

[Frostie]

Edit: Actually, I question the use of the ET on the 29S as the R77 has equal autonomous homing ability but with greater range. The ET looses lock far too often unless you're rear aspect where upon you gotta get really close to them anyway so you might as well use an R73 he if doesn't know you're there or if he does use an R77.

When used correctly and the time is right the ET is the best weapon in your arsenal, when you engage someone with a radar guided missile you've just given away your presence. If the range is 10-15km against a pilot who doesn't flap under pressure then you can pretty much expect an ARH in return. With an ET providing the parameters are good, you're not shoooting into the sun and he doesn't see the missile trail then you have the easiest fighter kill going. With a 73 you do less damage and also need to get much closer greatly increasing the risk of being bounced on yourself.

[Exorcet]

Jammer off = F15 can lock you and launch missile from approx 25-27nm.

 

Jammer on = approx 18 miles.

 

I don't often see what I consider good jammer usage online. Jammer off means you can potentially fly into someone's face undetected. Jammer on screams "here I am".

 

Jamming vs the F-15 is good for denying TWS shots, but it only really makes sense to use it after you've been detected. It's a bit more effective in a team situation, but even then I would be careful.

[blkspade]

If you're flying head to head with an F-15 that you've detected at 40k, he most likely sees you too. What I'll do then is turn on ECM to prevent him a shot into my climb to engage. This usually relies on me detecting them at around 35+nm.