Sound like a problem

[Demongornot]

I have several things to say about the sound of DCS, i don't know if i have to post it here, in Bugs and Problems or in Wishlist part, so never mind.

 

 

My first feedback about the sound (i have already talk about this several time) its the WAY TOO MUCH loud sound in external view or with canopy/door open, and it will probably boring a lot of people with the new UH-1H Huey.

 

I know its a simulation and sound are louder with canopy open, but its not a reason for making customer become deaf, if we want to hear with a "normal" level all the sound when we are inside the cockpit, we must NEVER open canopy or use external view if we don't want to hear this way too much loud sound who are so loud that it can make your headphone vibrate and any HP crackle (even far from the max volume in DB that the HP can do, its just too loud compare to the windows volume that you have setting, even with windows/HP/headphone volume all the way down just enough for head the sound really quiet it still crackle, and i have try with my HiFi (HiFi mean really good quality) my G930 headphone, my Tritton AX Pro Plus headphone and my new Razer Tiamat 7.1 Headphone, if i say it its for clarifying the fact that it don't come from me, everyone i talk with and who play this game report the same thing.

 

Even when i play with someone, in cockpit its perfect, and when i open canopy, when i spawn in my plane, or for some reason like formation flight training or anything else i use external view, i was totally UNABLE to hear my friend.

We don't need to become deaf for having immersion.

And why we can't just simply turn down the "World" sound volume in options ?

Cause like i show it on my video, the sound are way too loud from close distance and way too noiseless from distance, i mean :

If we lets high setting for World sound, we just have way too much sound for close distance but at least we can hear sound at an almost realistic range (and even with this, sound are too weak at distance, the sound attenuation are too much exaggerated).

If we lower the setting for World sound, yes when the canopy is open or in external view we don't become deaf (and it depend, cause some way too much loud sound still present like my video show it) but the distance already too short of sound distance with normal sound become ridiculously too short that we can't hear a fighter aircraft at 500m/1Km depending of the setting.

When walk at the night far from city and car noise, you can clearly hear when an aircraft like a liner is flying 10Km over you, and fighter are louder than liner, liner are really loud for take off at max power.

 

 

The second problem is with the Doppler effect, DCS use a CPU core only for the sound if one is available, so why with the incredible power of a CPU core capable to handing up to 4 000 000 000 operation (bits) per second for the fastest one like my 4Ghz CPU the sound still completely wrong ?

Seriously, just take any plane, like the F-15 and up to cruise speed, press F3 and firing gun during the flyby, the sound its ridiculously too highly pitched during the approach and way too much low pitched when the aircraft fly away, and this problem is the same since a LLLOOOOOOOT of time now...

Don't told me that a correct sound Doppler effect its hard to do, the sound only handle Doppler effect with high and low pitch relative to the speed (completely wrong) the sound attenuation with the distance (also wrong) and the speed propagation with the famous dead sound area over mach one (both of speed and no sound area seem correct and realistic...Or not, you will see why in my video)

 

The sound not even have to manage resonance, echo, reverberation, attenuation with object and propagation from complex surface (form and sound modulation).

So how with a sound engine using its own CPU core and with only the 3 minimum, basic and most simple thing that the sound do, 2 of them for 3 total can be wrong ? And in fact its 2.5 cause the supersonic sound its not really realistic for a lot of reasons.

 

Now just watch this video :

Its someone who have done a mod sound for the game Arma 2, this sound mod handle echo, reverberation and sound propagation, its only a mods do by an amateur over a game who already have its own sound engine, and its way more complex, realistic and better than DCS sound engine.

The doppler effect, the sound attenuation with the distance and the sound speed is completely correct in Arma 2 and this mods just make the sound reach a level that DCS will probably never dream of.

 

Just watch my video and you will understand, i have change some sound files, it make the external view sound less loud but the problem still the same for all aspect with or without sound mods.

 

My video link :

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f45GUZE4cD8

 

And the last problems of the sound in the simulator was the sound structure.

The game is already messy for all the files who prevent any low experience modders to do anything for this sim (who really need a lot of mods).

 

First : a lot of sound present in the sound folder is just not using by the game, best example : the supersonic sound, i have try to change the "SonicBoom.wav" file with a really great one i have sample, but now the sonic boom sound its just a bad mixed and over loud version of the aircraft itself, it was way too loud in short distance, and at 8 Km its already gone, but the supersonic boom its definitely not create by engine, everything with or without engine who just pass over the speed of the sound create a shock wave, its what created the sonic boom and the sonic boom sound its relative to the speed and the size of the object, the shape don't really change the sound of the shock wave a bullet, a rocket, an asteroid (like the one falling in Russia that we can clearly hear the very loud sonic boom) and the space shuttle who just gliding without engine create a supersonic boom.

A correct setting will be 3 or maybe 4 SonicBoom sound files and certainly not a sound just created by doing a strange thing with the aircraft engine sound.

The worst side if this was that rather than simply have a bad supersonic sound, we have a bad supersonic sound that we can't change.

 

And that's the worst part of the sound problem, cause now we have sound who simply don't work like the 30mm gun impact sound and other who was replace by thing who just make worst effect, i wonder see the simulator become greater and greater and certainly now degenerate and have a lot of new limitation.

 

I hope you will change the sound engine soon or even give us the possibility to optimize it ourselves like we can do in Arma 2 for example.

I'm really happy to see that you change things and try to improve all the side of DCS World, but its totally not necessary if it limited people, do things less correct than before and don't give the possibility to change it.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Demongornot
Edit for explain the reason why we can't just turn down the volume of World settings.

[TimeKilla]

Removed my comment, As OP has a fair point in my view noticed this sound issue a few times would not think it would be that hard to change.

Edited April 17, 2013 by TimeKilla

[159th_Falcon]

Didn't read the whole post, but yes, the difference in volume between in cockpit and open cockpit or outside view can be deafening at times.

 

Personally i adjusted the ingame sound sliders to solve this, but the default ratio's ma have to be set differently.

[Demongornot]

Removed my comment, As OP has a fair point in my view noticed this sound issue a few times would not think it would be that hard to change.

 

The true issue is the sound engine itself, it was maybe a nice sound engine, but with actual setting it was totally wrong...

 

Didn't read the whole post, but yes, the difference in volume between in cockpit and open cockpit or outside view can be deafening at times.

 

Personally i adjusted the ingame sound sliders to solve this, but the default ratio's ma have to be set differently.

 

I have editing and explain why its finally not a good idea to just turn down the World sound level, and the post don't only talk about this, the part of the to loud sound its only the softest past of the problem...

My video clearly show all the problems...

[c0ff]

the difference in volume between in cockpit and open cockpit or outside view can be deafening at times.

Thanks for translation!

We'll take a look.

[c0ff]

The overly long video highlights 3 points:

1) Gun sound affected by the Doppler effect.

It's a bug in sound source confguration. Should be easily fixable.

 

2) Sonic boom

a) is not a boom

Yes. It's a cone with a thin area of extra loud sound as it is in reality. If you could hold your mic just on the boundary of the Mach cone, you'll hear something similar. The difference is that it's 2 cones in reality and they are thinner and louder.

 

Why it can't be done as a special boom sample - because of the level of camera control you have in the game. You can move it any way you like at any time. The sound should be consistent. In my long TODO list there's a small record - Try to find a way to represent sonic boom with a special sample. Some time. May be.

 

b) is not heard at a large distances.

Yes. It's a game, where sound sources have limited radius. In your opinion it should be bigger. Maybe. Point taken.

 

3) There's an uncomfortable difference in volume between open and closed cockpit.

It is such in reality. So, it's a question of a compromise. We'll discuss this internally.

 

I didn't understand all this rant about sound still present at Mach 0.9. It should be.

[sobek]

I didn't understand all this rant about sound still present at Mach 0.9. It should be.

 

I think he means that the sound should reach the observer only shortly before the plane does.

[NineLine]

 

3) There's an uncomfortable difference in volume between open and closed cockpit.

It is such in reality. So, it's a question of a compromise. We'll discuss this internally.

 

This is going to be a personal preference thing, one person will not like it, another wont mind it... the OP must be single because at times it comes in handy to open the cokpit so I dont need to hear what the misses needs me to do after I am done playing pilot :)

[Madone]

the OP must be single because at times it comes in handy to open the cokpit so I dont need to hear what the misses needs me to do after I am done playing pilot :)

 

Sentence of the month! :thumbup:

[Demongornot]

@c0ff

 

_1 Gun affected by Doppler effect its normal, every sound in the universe are, its just a problem of way too much exaggerate Doppler effect, and not only for Gun but for every sound, aircraft don't sound correctly when flyby, the test can be easily do by use ctlr+F11 (free) camera and move it at high speed around the map, the sound distortion will be way too much pitched in high for closing or low for go away, and sometime it have big bug, when we move the camera fast to any sound and we stop it with 5 of num pad, the sound will stay highly pitched by Doppler effect even if we don't move relatively to the sound source and when we press a single time in scroll up or down of the mouse wheel, the sound back to the normal volume.

 

_2 In reality no one have put his ear inside the supersonic shockwave but inside this area its NOT a big sound compression created by the object sound, any quiet object who reach mach 1 create a sonic boom, its a shockwave not a sound compression (even if we can easily think that it was)...

And i know the first cone is created by the supersonic wing profile at first contact with air and the second will be created by the other edge of the wing, and in some condition we can hear both sonic boom, that why the real name its double sonic bang, but in standard condition they are too close for the human hear to differentiate this, mainly with sound echo/reverberation ob other object.

 

And before this patch the last patch who change this, sonic boom use its own file and it work well.

Stay inside the mach cone (cause we move at the same speed and at constant distance of the object who create this mach cone) and ear the sonic boom from an aircraft who passing next to us, even with a really small speed difference are both two completely different things, maybe not for physical law, but for any observer or anyone who hear it, its totally two different things.

 

Inside sonic cone yes its a long continue loud sound, but its NOT created by the aircraft engine, like you way yourself in fact in reality we have 2 wave, each created by a side, leading edge and trailing edge of the wing it mean that this sound is created by the wind and not by the engine, so even if the sound work well for sonic boom (and it don't) it was incorrect to use a simple distortion area of the engine sound and make it louder for fill this area.

 

You want a way to do it ?

First create a sample for the sonic boom sound that we hear when a supersonic object flyby.

In fact the correct thing will be to create 4 of this sound, one for small object like bullets and any debris, another for missiles, another for small and medium size fighter and a last one (almost identical to the one for fighters) for big aircraft like for example the SR-71 or the XB-70 or the one present on the game the B-1 bomber and the Russian equivalent.

Now sample this sound and create with the sound we hear on the begin another sample who will be the sound that we hear inside the supersonic cone shockwave.

Now when we put the camera or we fly inside the shockwave cone, we here the long sample, and when we leave this area from ahead we just stop to hear this and when its from behind the first sound (the simple supersonic boom like before) was played.

For optimized it, when we are a non moving thing and we hear this sound, it don't need to change, and when another aircraft produce this sound and pass in front of us the sound will be "fade" faster than the speed difference is low, cause when we fly fast we can't hear any resonance or flyby engine sound.

Another idea i give to you ED team for free...Its not like this that i will make money as an inventor haha...

 

Anyways maybe cause of the camera that we can move around it can be wrong (even if with my idea it can work) but don't forget that it was supposed to be a simulator and it mean cockpit view only optimistized first, external camera and other impossible things must never keep features away from the realistic use, and actually with the new vertion of the sonic boom sound, it was unrealistic and kill immersion in the game.

 

And the B point.

And yes sound distance must be realistic this cause game is supposed to be a simulator.

And for for rejoining the 2-B and the 3 point that you write.

The sound is too loud from close distance and it disappear too fast, it mean the only way to correcting the sound too loud is to turn down the "World" sound slider down, and it mean that the distance will one more time decrease and it will be really way too much shorted compare to real life.

 

And yes it was realistic but way too much loud for a game, even for a simualtor, cause with canopy close the sound is normal and when we open it the sound is between 2 and 3 time louder, it mean that we ear take a big shot and we don't want to become deaf cause of a game, and it also mean that when we talk with anyone in skype or TS we don't hear anymore peoples.

 

 

And for finish yes Sobek correctly "traduct" what i have try do say, the sound must never be hear that soon when aircraft fly by from us, like we can hear in this video.