fitness88 Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) Mig-29s Using IRST: I'm getting a LA on the HUD when using IRST and 27et as the selected weapon. I thought IRST does not indicate when in shoot range. I'm receiving friendly and enemy plane symbology data on my HDD from A-50 or ground-based EW radars when in combat mode. I didn't think the Mig-29 had that capability only the SU-27 and SU-33? Enemy plane symbology data on my HDD turns out to be friendly when I IFF with my radar? Any ideas on these items? Thank you. Edited April 28, 2013 by fitness88
Drona Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 All the above items are normal and in accordance with real aircraft data. They are not issues! ;)
fitness88 Posted April 28, 2013 Author Posted April 28, 2013 All the above items are normal and in accordance with real aircraft data. They are not issues! ;) Not according to the manual.
Drona Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) OLS-27 / Izdeliye 36Sh NPO Geofizika OLS-27 A combined IRST/LR device for the Su-27, similar to the MiG-29's KOLS but more sophisticated, using a cooled, broader waveband, sensor. Tracking rate is over 25deg/sec. 50km range in pursuit engagement, 15km head-on. The laser rangefinder operates between 300-3000m for air targets, 300-5000m for ground targets. Search limits are ±60deg azimuth, +60/-15° in elevation. Three different FOVs are used, 60° by 10°, 20° by 5°, and 3° by 3°. Detection range is up to 50km, whilst the laser ranger is effective from 300-3000m. Azimuth tracking is accurate to 5 secs, whilst range data is accurate to 3-10m. Targets are displayed on the same CRT display as the radar. Weighs 174kg. OLS-27K for Su-33 featured new algorithms and better processor. It allegedly tracked targets in pursuit mode by their IR signature at 90 km during tests. KOLS / Izdeliye 13Sh / OEPS-29 OKB: NPO Geophyizika OEPS-29 from the MiG-29 Fitted to the MiG-29A, KOLS is a combined IRST/LR device. All aspect device. Acquires targets independently, or with data input from the radar. Can detect a non-afterburning fighter head-on at a range of 12-18km. The collimated laser can provide ranging data from 200-6500m accurate to 3m. Scanning limits are ±30° azimuth, -15°/+30° elevation. Chart showing KOLS operational modes from MiG-29 combat employment manual Operates in several scanning modes. In large FOV mode scanning is ±30° azimuth, +30°/15° elevation. In small FOV mode scanning limits are ±30° azimuth and ±15° elevation. Close combat mode scans +16° to -14° by 4°. Lock-on mode scans 6° x 4°. Target tracking rate is up to 30°/sec. KOLS is able to reject flares only if the combined signature of the flares is less than the target. Targets are displayed on the same display as the radar. This was posted earlier in one of the forum posts. Edited April 28, 2013 by Kunz
Frostie Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) Mig-29s Using IRST: I'm getting a LA on the HUD when using IRST and 27et as the selected weapon. I thought IRST does not indicate when in shoot range. You are getting LA from the missile not the IRST, the ET has aquired the target and it's informing you of this. I'm receiving friendly and enemy plane symbology data on my HDD from A-50 or ground-based EW radars when in combat mode. I didn't think the Mig-29 had that capability only the SU-27 and SU-33? The MiG29A doesn't have the capability to receive information from AWACS and EWR. While the MiG-29S has the same capability in this regard as the Flanker. Enemy plane symbology data on my HDD turns out to be friendly when I IFF with my radar? That is because the radar is the only tool that can IFF, when you lock a contact with the IRST it shows as a bandit because that is the default contact symbol. This is also true of the cannon which uses the same method, only when you switch your radar on can you IFF. Edited April 28, 2013 by Frostie "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
Pilotasso Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 You are getting LA from the missile not the IRST, the ET has aquired the target and it's informing you of this. Isn't seeker lock on a necessary condition but not sufficient? don't you need some sort of ranging as well to determine target within parameters? The IRST has a laser rangefinger, this might be it. .
Esac_mirmidon Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 It's possible to launch in Complete Instrumental Conditions or Incomplete Instrumental Conditions when the weapons system system doesn't have all data for a perfect launch. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
Dudikoff Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) Isn't seeker lock on a necessary condition but not sufficient? don't you need some sort of ranging as well to determine target within parameters? The IRST has a laser rangefinger, this might be it. I checked the Yefim Gordon book and (much to my surprise) the LR max range stated to be at 8 km (I expected about half of that). But, I locked a B-52 from like 25 kms (rear aspect) and the target range was updated constantly (and the radar indicator was off). Please excuse my ignorance, but unless the target is somehow pinged by radar (which would defeat the stated stealth approach use of the IRST mode), I wonder how the target range is tracked then? Edited April 28, 2013 by Dudikoff i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!
Pilotasso Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 Yefin Gordon is not a reliable source. he just makes things up. .
Dudikoff Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 Yefin Gordon is not a reliable source. he just makes things up. That might be so, but still, I find it hard to believe that the LR integrated with the MiG-29's IRST system has a long enough range to provide the observed target range tracking (I'd expect its range to be useful for gunnery ranging only). If so, how is the target range determined then? I would appreciate a comment from the DEVs on this. i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!
Frostie Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 The laser range finder is capable of ranging up to a max of 6.5km, 3km accurately according to internet knowledge. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
Esac_mirmidon Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 And also the radar could scan for very short time in intervals to feed IRST with an accurate meassure of target range in greater distances. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
Dudikoff Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 "The max slant range of the Laser is 14km (7.7 NM) and the Russians guarantee it out to 8 km (4.4 NM). Up to15km (8.2NM) detection capability for the IRST versus a Military Power Target was indicated in Mikoyan discussions. From 4-8km (2.2-4.4 NM) the IRST autotracks the target with the help of the Laser ranger, and the results are displayed on the HUD with symbols, not on the HMS. It can be assumed then, that there is a full "covert" attack capability in close. With full radar tracking the IRST can track further out." http://www.sci.fi/~fta/MiG-29-3b.htm i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!
fitness88 Posted April 29, 2013 Author Posted April 29, 2013 You are getting LA from the missile not the IRST, the ET has aquired the target and it's informing you of this. The MiG29A doesn't have the capability to receive information from AWACS and EWR. While the MiG-29S has the same capability in this regard as the Flanker. That is because the radar is the only tool that can IFF, when you lock a contact with the IRST it shows as a bandit because that is the default contact symbol. This is also true of the cannon which uses the same method, only when you switch your radar on can you IFF. Yes you are correct From the manual p.43 The LA symbol appears immediately when the missile seeker has locked the target, regardless of target range. The pilot should judge the target range visually to ensure the missile will have enough energy to complete the intercept, especially in the case of receding pursuit targets. As for #3 I am receiving the plane symbology not from a plane being locked up by IRST or by my radar but from ground based radars feeding my HDD. Also how come some contacts in this scenario show up as friendly [round] and some hostile [triangle] if what you said is true? Thank you and everyone for all their information.
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