Minigun & Ricochets ... a bit much

[Flagrum]

Hi

I think, the bullets of the minigun are ricocheting a bit too much. No matter of the impact angle and no matter of the type of ground they impact at, about 99% of all bullets seem to ricochet.

 

If i shoot "straight" downwards (i.e. ~ 45 - 50 degrees) into grass land or even into the ocean, i would not expect more than a few (as in 2-3 per second) IF ANY AT ALL.

 

Maybe it is not possible to make this dynamic, depending on the ground type ... but then at least reduce the effect at least by 70-80 % in general.

[Sundowner.pl]

Shooting the Minigun into the water:

 

 

Remember that what you see as ricochets are mostly just the tracer material stripped off by the force of impact.

[Flagrum]

Shooting the Minigun onto the water:

 

Okay, but that is at an low angle.

 

Remember that what you see as ricochets are mostly just the tracer material stripped by the force of impact.

Hrm, okay, that is a good point. Didn't know that.

[Devrim]

And this is another point that I wonder:

 

To explode a truck I must press fire very long time and directly to the truck. But, if I fire at the ground (near by the truck) I see very powerful, large and aggressive ricochets!

 

So, what is the effective power of minigun? Actually ricochets are fooling me about power of minigun. Although each bullet seems like that it immediately erases you from the earth, they hardly blow up a truck.

 

Or am I wrong?...

[Suchacz]

So, what is the effective power of minigun? Actually ricochets are fooling me about power of minigun. Although each bullet seems like that it immediately erases you from the earth, they hardly blow up a truck.

I doubt also if they can blow it up, but I'm certain, that they will turn it to a pile of unusable scrap :D

 

Edited May 17, 2013 by Suchacz

[Sundowner.pl]

So, what is the effective power of minigun?

That is an excellent question, and the answer like with most ballistic weaponry lies in: "it depends on the ammunition".

 

It fires the same round the M-60, M240 machineguns and M-14, M24, M40 rifles (to name only a few), non of witch was made for engaging machinery, but primarily to engage infantry. Although armor piercing (M61 and M993), sub-caliber Sabot armor piercing - AKA "SLAP"* (M948/M959) and armor piercing incendiary (silvertips: US T101E1 and Belgian PI86 - also used in the UK) are also available, but with 3300J of energy at the muzzle, their effect on hardened target is, well... limited. The best penetration you can expect is 1/2" of hardened steel with the SLAP round, barely enough to go through a Level IV plate in ballistic vest, and the resulting hole is 5mm in diameter - not much effect on target. So using those rounds on hardened or mechanical targets is like stabbing a thin plywood with a screwdriver, you will do some damage, but not very destructive.

 

Now, if you want to wreck havoc on the trucks, what you need is a .50 cal machine gun and some NAMMO-Raufoss NM140MP (made on licence in US as Mk211 Mod 0 and Poland under original name), those are anti-armor-incendiary-high explosive-fragmentation rounds, stand back and watch the fireworks :smilewink: Up to 2" of steel penetration, fragmentation effect, incendiary effect, hot enough to light kerosene fumes - that's what you need against those pesky trucks on your lawn :thumbup:

In case of the UH-1H you could potentially use those with M2HB or M3M machineguns for gunners on M59 mounts, or with either XM14 or FN HMP machinegun pods on the bomb racks.

 

 

*SLAP - Saboted Light Armor Penetrator

[Devrim]

Thank you all for infos and (but) I'm sorry guys; I think I made a mistake by typing "mini gun".

I think I should have written "door gun"?... In a moment I thought minigun as the gun that mounted at the doors. :( Sorry.

[Sundowner.pl]

Nothing really changes from what I wrote about for the door mounted M-60 machine guns, same round, same terminal ballistics, only 6 times lower fire rate.

[Fuzzy_bear]

incendiary's are probably most affective against soft targets and by that i mean the cloth canopies on the back of trucks also a few rounds through the grill is bound to start an oil/fuel leak and with so many rounds/minute ripping into an engine compartment or the soft, 'usually' external fuel tanks on the side of trucks even tracers would set fire to most things flamable however I don't have the stats on what temperature they might be at relative point of impact or at what temp diesel ignites... Either way, If I can kill a truck in the game by shooting at it... what the hell.. I still grin like a lunatic when I squeeze that trigger and the Huey breathes hot fiery death like a dragon at everything in it's path.

 

At the end of the day the old girl is a multi-role utility Helicopter and the gunships were primarily used to make the enemy run for cover and I'm pretty sure that in it's era of operation it's intended soft targets being humans and dodgy wooden boats it is and was most effective.

 

Send an attack helo to attack and use the Huey to do what it does best... put a huge grin on your chops while flying it.

[Sundowner.pl]

I would have to pull up a certificate for that type of ammunition at work, but the amount of incendiary mixture in 7.62 bullet is very small, it will create pretty flash when hitting a hard target, but to light up diesel fuel ? I don't think so. .50" M8 API couldn't do it, and that's ~4x more mixture.

[Jaximus Decimus]

I've seen 7.62 incendiary light vehicles on fire pretty easily. In fact, a quick youtube search reveals;

 

There isn't a great deal of incendiary compound in each round, but you're not going to be hitting a target with an M134 with just one round. If it's inflammable, the M134 will light it on fire. Probably, anyway.

[Sundowner.pl]

I can assure you, no one is shooting API ammo through the minigun, only ones you can find are the experimental US T101E1 and Belgian or UK PI86 - both have collectible value being 60 years old, and harder and harder to find (and really expensive). Cars on those videos are "spiced up" with various reactive materials, to give a nice show. Plus you can light gasoline with a spark created with the steel core of AP round striking on any steel surface of the car - you can't do that with jet fuel or Diesel.

[Jaximus Decimus]

In my experience incendiary tracer is easy to come by. Not API, but you don't need API to kill a light vehicle and set it ablaze. I'm not sure what the US military's official loading for the M134 is, but incendiary tracer was easy to come by in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Sundowner.pl]

7.62x51mm NATO ? There were no marking rounds certified for military use in that caliber. Although yes, there are such rounds, manufactured by the Northern Arizona Munitions. But same as similar rounds in 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R, those have next to no penetration - hence the name "marking rounds". Don't think you can do much damage with those to a truck. Maybe if you dumped 2 second minigun burst into the wheel hub you could set the tire on fire ? Not much more I'm afraid.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Sundowner.pl

[Jaximus Decimus]

Penetration is relative, though. Just about anything will penetrate the body of a vehicle that doesn't have armor. Automotive sheet metal doesn't provide anything resembling ballistic protection.

 

As far as a certified incendiary tracer NATO round I have no clue.

[hansangb]

Just one note. They used to make a big deal about having a no-fly zone near our M16 qualification stages. I remember thinking to myself, what's the big deal? not like these 5.56 rounds are going to ricochet much...

 

Until we were doing some night firing. I put on my NVGs (while standing around) and boy do they ricochet. not sure if it was the actual bullet or just the tracer "flecks" coming off, but it does look pretty impressive.

[CAPT Jebus]

Here is how Tracers really work

 

The Standard NATO machine gun load out is what is called 4 bit. 4 Ball 1 Tracer.

So this means that for every tracer round you see there is usually 4 ball rounds /standard full metal jacket projectiles in between them.

 

Tracers do not have any phosphorus material on the outside of the round as commonly taught and believed. This would be extremely hazardous to the operator.

 

The actual phosphorus material is inside the copper jacket of the projectile {the bullet} with a bit of lead for weight at the tip and the sides of the copper jacket for stability in flight.

 

The tracer is ignited by the powder when the round is fired with a delaying fuse preventing it from igniting in the barrel of the weapon, usually 20-30 feet away from the muzzle, this is also used for deception purposes so the enemy can not tell exactly where the shot come from.

 

The ricochets you see, are from the projectiles striking a solid object and being deflected due to the round not having much kinetic energy due to its light weight as most of the tracer material is being burnt up. Don't get me wrong they will still do damage to a soft target and f@$k-up your day if you get hit by one.

[Sandman1330]

The Taliban in Afghanistan used to call the M134 on the Canadian Griffon helicopters "the breath of Allah." I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end in anything smaller than a tank. Even an APC is going to be rendered useless, as the heavy rate of fire will destroy the sighting systems, wheels/tracks, etc. The crew would survive, but they'd be out of the fight.

[AlphaOneSix]

I'm not sure what the US military's official loading for the M134 is

 

Day: 4xM80 Ball, 1x M62 Tracer

Night: 9xM80 Ball, 1xM276 Dim Tracer

 

If low on dim tracer, then just use regular tracers at night, although it's a bit blinding. You could also use dim tracers during the day, but you won't see the tracers.

Edited April 1, 2017 by AlphaOneSix