zaGURUinzaSKY Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 I had a discussion in messenger with a friend, and this is the "copy and paste", hope it's usefull: "JonnyB" wrote: i need your help "JonnyB" wrote: with a manuver Robbie the Hood scrive: coming help.. ready .. now. "JonnyB" wrote: you know the manuver where you go up vertical and you do some sort of kobra thing and the plane flips back down downwards Robbie the Hood wrote: yeah TAILSLIDE "JonnyB" wrote: can you tell me how to please Robbie the Hood wrote: hard stuff with lomac.. easier with real plane.. "JonnyB" wrote: mm Robbie the Hood wrote: start a maximun pull from level flight, when 45° AOC apply full right rudder and right stick... Robbie the Hood wrote: you' soon have a warning voice calling "Angle of attack over limit" "JonnyB" wrote: yea Robbie the Hood wrote: in that moment you've lost your ailerons control. "JonnyB" wrote: so your in a spin Robbie the Hood wrote: just set a leveled wings climb with the use of rudder only and keep it leveled on wings.. clib up to 120° AOC Robbie the Hood wrote: always with that warning... Robbie the Hood wrote: at 120° idle engline and it's done.. Robbie the Hood wrote: ahah "JonnyB" wrote: so im in a stall but trying not to turn and pulling up with full power Robbie the Hood wrote: you have to keep the maximun stall as possible.. "JonnyB" wrote: then once at 12o idle Robbie the Hood wrote: and control your turn only with rudder.. "JonnyB" wrote: can you do this manuver Robbie the Hood wrote: check your smoke from outside to understand if your aircraft is climbing more than 90° Robbie the Hood wrote: that's the moment. "JonnyB" wrote: so at the start how fast am i going Robbie the Hood wrote: 350 with afterburners and no flaps!! Robbie the Hood wrote: you have to enter the stall as quickly as possible. Robbie the Hood wrote: and control with rudder.. "JonnyB" wrote: so i pull up vertical and rudeer right and turnright Robbie the Hood wrote: if you do a turn like that you enter that stall sooner.. "JonnyB" wrote: which is good or bad Robbie the Hood wrote: it's nice to see and nice to fly.. you always fly the maneuver here.. is not just a scripted maneuvers like the cobra.. Robbie the Hood wrote: you need to have a very high AOA. "JonnyB" wrote: wat is aoa Robbie the Hood wrote: Angle of Attack, the angle between your aircraft direction and you aircraft cord (Line between leading edge and back of wing, I don't remember english term..) Robbie the Hood wrote: If your nose is pointing 20° up but you're flying at stable altitude, your AOA is 20° "JonnyB" wrote: r u busy Robbie the Hood wrote: May I publish this conversation in forum for others? Maybe it's usefull to know.. "JonnyB" wrote: yes Robbie the Hood wrote: ok, I'm working on pictures I did to a Hotel in these days, work stuff.. "JonnyB" wrote: im confused at about how to get in to the stall and what position i will be in after that Robbie the Hood wrote: in any position you'll be it's important you control the aircraft with you're rudder (once you're in total stall there is no other ways..), pull it up to a straight climb and climb up and over 90°, reduce power and it's gone.. Robbie the Hood wrote: If wings are not perfectly leveled you'll fall in a Hammerhead (aka Stall Turn). Robbie the Hood wrote: About the same maneuver but you fall on your side.. "JonnyB" wrote: so i pull up with 35o then afterburners than i get into a stall and will end up in a stall spin so i get out of the spin and stay in the stall using rudeers to go up verntical and when im just after verntical i put idle on. Robbie the Hood wrote: (use afterburner before the pull) "JonnyB" wrote: yea Robbie the Hood wrote: YOu need no spin but it's easier to enter the complete stall situation if you yaw and roll a bit.. Robbie the Hood wrote: Back to work, let me know how it works.. "JonnyB" wrote: so i have to try stay up Robbie the Hood wrote: remember ther are "2 levels" of stall in lock on.. Robbie the Hood wrote: you need to have the warning voice saying "Angle of attack over limit"... you can easily understand it becouse you're ailerons don't work. "JonnyB" wrote: yea Robbie the Hood wrote: (I only did it with Su-27 and Su-33) Robbie the Hood wrote: ciao! I also add that you can enter the Tailslide from positive or negative, you'll fall back or front... it depends on the disection of flight while your speed is almost zero. Hope this is usefull for acro lovers. 1 Robbie.
Cobra360 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 I feel the tailslide to be very scripted in Lockon but its very easy to perform, just pull up to around 90 degrees and bring the throttles back to idle and apply just a little rudder to counter the nose slice.
anivanov Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 interesting thread..... btw cobra360, how do you can manage smoke collor?
Cobra360 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 From 1.1 you can have up to six different smoke colours. You can select them from the weapon loadout screen and place the smoke pods on the pylons you want.
Weta43 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 In real life are pilots going for a parabola or straight up & down ? I always try to fall straight backwards into my own smoke..? Cheers.
SUBS17 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Thats not a tail slide, a tailslide is where you go vertical at 90 degrees then you physically slide back and fall backwards. If you do it in a 27 you actaually pass through your own smoke. In FC you can enter departure this way. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]
Weta43 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 So for a tailslide you go straight up & cut the throttle, watch the artificial horizon to make sure you're going straight up & haven't pulled back too far, you'll slow till you end up with 0km/h IAS at the top, go straight backwards down briefly & (shuddering - if you load different coloured smoke you end up with a nice psychodelic view of coloured toilet paper out the front window,) then the nose drops (one way or the other depending on which way you push the rudder) & you recover. (But it's not a new thing, you could do it in 1.02 as well) PS: It's a lot harder in the AFM planes! Cheers.
bSr.LCsta Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 I did this in a MIG-29 IRL! :) Did not require rudder from my memory. Only to reach minimum speed and gravity takes over, the way you fall depends on the AOA when you reach 0 speed. +90 you will fall backwards -90 forawrds (also your rate of climb fators in too). is this ok?
Weta43 Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Very cool ! I bet you don't need to dredge very hard to remember that - it would stick well. I think if you're pretty much straight up & down when you come to a halt you could use your stick to decide which way you'll flip as you start to slide backwards - control surfaces are just now at the front of the plane like the Wright brothers. ( did you know a New Zealander made a powered flight before the Wright brothers? but he didn't have a full set of controllable flight surfaces & crashed after a short flight - he survived though. That's why their flight is always refered to in modern references as the first controlled powered flight.) Cheers.
zaGURUinzaSKY Posted January 15, 2006 Author Posted January 15, 2006 I feel the tailslide to be very scripted in Lockon but its very easy to perform, just pull up to around 90 degrees and bring the throttles back to idle and apply just a little rudder to counter the nose slice. Yeah I see your point but the reslts of my maneuver is totally different, you tailslide on top, totally different and is not scripted like the end of the maneuver you show us in this great images.. Try! Robbie.
zaGURUinzaSKY Posted January 15, 2006 Author Posted January 15, 2006 In real life are pilots going for a parabola or straight up & down ? I always try to fall straight backwards into my own smoke..? Straight up and down. Yes, in to the smoke. Robbie.
zaGURUinzaSKY Posted January 15, 2006 Author Posted January 15, 2006 Thats not a tail slide, a tailslide is where you go vertical at 90 degrees then you physically slide back and fall backwards. If you do it in a 27 you actaually pass through your own smoke. In FC you can enter departure this way. True, it's possible in the way I explained. Robbie.
zaGURUinzaSKY Posted January 15, 2006 Author Posted January 15, 2006 So for a tailslide you go straight up & cut the throttle, watch the artificial horizon to make sure you're going straight up & haven't pulled back too far, you'll slow till you end up with 0km/h IAS at the top, go straight backwards down briefly & (shuddering - if you load different coloured smoke you end up with a nice psychodelic view of coloured toilet paper out the front window,) then the nose drops (one way or the other depending on which way you push the rudder) & you recover. (But it's not a new thing, you could do it in 1.02 as well) PS: It's a lot harder in the AFM planes! Almosto correct, but remember, without the complete stall with "AOA Over Limit" warning, you can't do it. Robbie.
Bublik Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 I think you are talking about two different maneuvers. Cobra360 is explaining how to perform the tailslide ('bell'), while zaGURUinzaSKY (and JonnyB) were actually discussing the 'somersault' maneuver (usually performed using thrust-vectoring). As for the tailslide, in real life you have to maintain the pitch around 70-80 degrees near the top (for the Su-27 and MiG-29). WR=210=Vladimir http://lockon-vpg.nm.ru http://whiteravens.nm.ru http://white-ravens.com
zaGURUinzaSKY Posted January 15, 2006 Author Posted January 15, 2006 right, what I wrote is not actually a pure tailslide, my AOC drastically change on the very top of the maneuver, and not when coming back to the ground.. Robbie.
SUBS17 Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 The tail slide is basically similar to a hammerhead, you slide backwards and then the nose drops. You can also slide sideways if your nose is not straight vertical, in which case its similar to a stall turn where as the aircraft slides horizontally before the nose drops. Try it with the 25T, its alot of fun although I did manage to rip my wings off afterwards.(too fast with too much g:D ) [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]
Weta43 Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 Hi - Playing last night: Looking forward ( to going backwards) Sliding Exiting Psychodelic flashback (to 1.02 - most out of it colours) UFO (completely OT) Cheers.
SUBS17 Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 Exceeding structural limits:D [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]
Frazer Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 Yeah I see your point but the reslts of my maneuver is totally different, you tailslide on top, totally different and is not scripted like the end of the maneuver you show us in this great images.. Try! My manouver, HAHAHAHA. GUESS FROM WHO YOU LEARNED THIS STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guys if you want to see what this manouver is about, start lockon, go to SHOW REPLAYS and start "demo_super-27" At least I figured out how these manouvers are flown by myself.......... Forum | Videos | DCS:BS Demo1 / Demo2 | YouTube Channel [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
chennuts Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 My manouver, HAHAHAHA. GUESS FROM WHO YOU LEARNED THIS STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guys if you want to see what this manouver is about, start lockon, go to SHOW REPLAYS and start "demo_super-27" At least I figured out how these manouvers are flown by myself.......... Pretty sure you aren't the one who invented the manuver, Frazer. Or the first to figure out how to perform it in Lock On. If you cut out the first two sentences of your post, along with the last, it's actually constructive. As for the rest...did you want a cookie or something?
Frazer Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 Pretty sure you aren't the one who invented the manuver, Frazer. Or the first to figure out how to perform it in Lock On. If you cut out the first two sentences of your post, along with the last, it's actually constructive. As for the rest...did you want a cookie or something? Jeez chennuts, learn to read, did I say that the manouver was invented by me? NO. Did I say that i'm the first one who figured out how to perform it in lockon? NO. Did I say that I did figure it out without knowing how it is performed? YES. And Robby "the hood" is again, trying to get away with the honour. "My manouver" pffffffff...... You're the best Robby! Forum | Videos | DCS:BS Demo1 / Demo2 | YouTube Channel [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
chennuts Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 Jeez chennuts, learn to read, did I say that the manouver was invented by me? NO. And Robby "the hood" is again, trying to get away with the honour. Youre the best Robby! Ok, since I'm apparently having comprehension problems, let's do a little summary: zaGURU shares the modification of a configuration file regarding the number of discrete points between Xmin and Xmax, and Ymin and Ymax respectively. Lots of people are grateful for the insight and test it for themselves. Some people notice a significant difference, some do not. -You join the forum and call zaGURU an asshole because you asked him not to tell anyone. zaGURU shares how to perform what he called a "tailslide" (which turned out to be a different maneuver, but sparked a good discussion and sharing of screenshots of the maneuvers. -You accuse zaGURU is trying to take credit for something that you've come up with, claiming it as his own. Instead of asking him to credit you as the one who taught him the maneuver, you state that it's actually your maneuver, say something constructive, then imply that you're better than him because you figured out how to do the maneuver on your own. I point out that even if you were the one to teach him, you weren't the first person to perform the maneuver in reality or in Lock On. I then imply that you're being an ass, and respond in kind, asking if you'd like a cookie. -You then imply that I lack reading and/or comprehension skills, after which you imply that zaGURU is trying to take away your honor. Unfortunately, you've done quite a good job of this yourself. Frazer, I challenge you to add something constructive to this forum. If you can't do that, please leave or refrain from posting. //edit: You edited your post while I was writing mine. When he said "my maneuver," zaGURU was distinguishing the maneuver he had performed from the one they were talking about. If you think he implied ownership to the maneuver, that's fine. Are you saying that you want this to be known as your maneuver, Frazer? Or are you simply upset that you feel he's claimed it as his own?
504 Wolverine Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 I think you need to read the original post as well Frazer. He is not claiming anything except that the manouver that Cobra shown was different to the one that he was talking about. Nothing more, nothing less. Obvioulsy you are letting your dislike for ZaGuru posting your email clould your judgement on anything related to him. Just let it drop. Your bringing down the board with your petty post war. [/url]
Frazer Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 Imagine that you are in this aerobatic team, you figured something cool out and ofcourse you want to share it with your team.(Not the rest of the world because you want this team to be special) Because of some reasons that I will spare you guys you leave the team you've been flying in for around a year. After a while you find a post with the things you've told your old team leader on a public forum......... I'm not claiming that i'm the inventor of this (IF ITS STILL NOT CLEAR TO YOU) but it's not very nice to find the stuff you've been figuring out and putting afford in, and what was ment to be for the team, on a public forum.(the one who flew the display in lockon or the flightmodel designer didn't post how to fly this on a public forum too) And I can assure you guys that if I didn't leave the "Illusion Aerobatic Team" this topic and the topic "i don't believe in secets" wouldn't be on this forum. Ofcourse you will not choose my side because then you wouldn't have known this stuff in the first place. But if you would be in my position you would feel screwed by your old team leader. chennuts, i don't want to continue the discussion of the other post, but for you I will repeat something you probably overred or something. I asked the people who I gave this joyrange stuff to keep it "secret" for non aerobatic pilots because I was told to do so. If =RvE=--AS-- wanted it to be published he would have posted it. And i don't want a cookie, otherwise you would have found the topic started by me. I just want Robby to stop screwing with me. Will happen anyway, this was the last thing Robby knows from me. Geetz, Frazer Forum | Videos | DCS:BS Demo1 / Demo2 | YouTube Channel [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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