DCS: Spitfire Mk LF IXc Discussion

[Archaic]

Hmm.... After the February update it looks like our Spitfire Day may very well be Christmas this year. So close, but so far. :cry:

 

Oh well, the best things in life are worth waiting for. Back to the Pony I guess. :pilotfly:

 

Back to Aces High...

[Friedrich-4B]

:doh: How did I overlook this Ebook (also available as a hardback) Spitfire M. IX & XVI Engineered? I remember reading a review about the hardback some years ago here , but it was a bit expensive at the time.

 

Spitfire Mk. IX & XVI Engineered is a 430 pages long, expensively printed colour reference work which provides information about the various features of the Spitfire Mk.IX and XVI to a high degree of accuracy. With large format photos, colour drawings and relatively little text, everything looks something like a superdetailing modeller’s dream reference.

 

The author approaches his subject systematically and with professional knowledge. Paul Monforton is a manufacturing engineer living in Canada, with over 20 years’ experience in the aerospace industry, working with companies like De Havilland, Mc Donnell Douglas, Boeing, IAI and Bombardier. He is also an avid radio-controlled model engineer. All this shows in the way he approaches his subject. In fact, the entire book is of his own making, including photography, editing, page design and typesetting. A commendable feat

 

Anyway, I've downloaded the ebook and have been going through it on and off during the day - brilliant! :book: :worthy: :thumbup:

 

Would that such comprehensive publications be made for the 109G-Ks and the Fw 190A-Fs or Ds and the P-51D or P-47D!

[ATAG_Snapper]

Wow, thank you for that link! :thumbup:

 

Purchased/downloaded and had a quick look. Beautiful photos - so much detail!

[SKR]

Friedrich-4/B Hi! you have a book "Morgan and Shacklady Spitfire the History" in electronic form?

[Friedrich-4B]

Wow, thank you for that link! :thumbup:

 

Purchased/downloaded and had a quick look. Beautiful photos - so much detail!

 

+ 100%, and glad to have brought it to your attention. I'm hoping to get my hands on the hard copy, but the postage rates are a pain and my spending priorities are elsewhere for now.

 

Friedrich-4/B Hi! you have a book "Morgan and Shacklady Spitfire the History" in electronic form?

 

No, only the paper; is there any information in particular you're wanting?

[SKR]

No, only the paper; is there any information in particular you're wanting?

At once I from Russia apologize for my English. I as well as you try to understand as Spitfire Mk.VIII and Mk.IX on 25 lb/sq in has to fly. To me it is interesting all flight tests of these planes which are in this book

[Friedrich-4B]

At once I from Russia apologize for my English.

 

No apology needed! Your English is far better than my Russian. :v:

 

I as well as you try to understand as Spitfire Mk.VIII and Mk.IX on 25 lb/sq in has to fly. To me it is interesting all flight tests of these planes which are in this book

 

There is not a lot of information on +25 lbs boost in "Spitfire the History" except to state that the modification was known as "Basta".

 

For some excellent information on Spitfire tests, have a look at this website:

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spittest.html

 

for the Mk IX tests, see:

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-IX.html

 

Here is a downloadable pdf of +25lbs boost tests made by Rolls-Royce in October 1943:

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/JL165-Rolls-Royce.pdf

 

and here is another set of tests:

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/ma648.html

 

****************

 

At least 2 Spitfire Mk VIIIs, JF275 and JG204, were tested using 100/150 grade fuel and +25lbs boost.

JG204 is mentioned in paragraph 4.43 of the A&AEE trials of Spitfire IX JL165 (below)

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/jl165.html

 

4.43. For comparison purpose the climb and level speed results as obtained at the increased boost rating by:

 

(a) Vickers Armstrongs Ltd., Supermarine Works,

Report No. 3918 of 5th October, 1943 on

Spitfire VIII JG.204

 

(b) Rolls-Royce, Hucknall

Report No. Dor/Chr/Rls.1/MNH 8.10.1943 on

Spitfire IX JL.165

 

are given below.

 

Spitfire L.F Mk VIII JF275 test results from Morgan & Shacklady (NB: should read 150 octane fuel):

 

 

As far as I know, no Spitfire VIII used +25lbs boost on operational service (the Spitfire VIII was almost always used in the Mediterranean/Italian theatres and by the RAAF in the Pacific, where 100/150 grade fuel was not used).

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-VIII.html

 

For information on the performances of many other WW 2 aircraft:

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/

 

Hope this is of some help.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Friedrich-4/B
Add information on Spitfire VIII tests

[SKR]

No apology needed! Your English is far better than my Russian. :v:

 

 

 

There is not a lot of information on +25 lbs boost in "Spitfire the History" except to state that the modification was known as "Basta".

 

For some excellent information on Spitfire tests, have a look at this website:

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spittest.html

 

for the Mk IX tests, see:

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-IX.html

 

Here is a downloadable pdf of +25lbs boost tests made by Rolls-Royce in October 1943:

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/JL165-Rolls-Royce.pdf

 

and here is another set of tests:

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/ma648.html

 

****************

 

At least 2 Spitfire Mk VIIIs, JF275 and JG204, were tested using 100/150 grade fuel and +25lbs boost.

JG204 is mentioned in paragraph 4.43 of the A&AEE trials of Spitfire IX JL165 (below)

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/jl165.html

 

 

 

Spitfire L.F Mk VIII JF275 test results from Morgan & Shacklady (NB: should read 150 octane fuel):

 

 

As far as I know, no Spitfire VIII used +25lbs boost on operational service (the Spitfire VIII was almost always used in the Mediterranean/Italian theatres and by the RAAF in the Pacific, where 100/150 grade fuel was not used).

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-VIII.html

 

For information on the performances of many other WW 2 aircraft:

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/

 

Hope this is of some help.

I am aware about this site. I need still other data on Spitfire Mk.VIII and Mk.IX if you have an opportunity that make scans of all data on these modifications of Spit.

By the way you have no information on tests of Spitfire Mk.VIII/IX in the USA?I can provide the Russian data (if it is necessary)

[TAGERT]

I can provide the Russian data (if it is necessary)

That would be great to see! S!

[Kurfürst]

That would be great to see! S!

 

Scroll back a couple of pages ;) - never mind, let me do it for ya.

 

Soviet trial results of Spitfire Mk IXLF. The Soviet Union received 1000+ Spitfire IXs during the war and were used for home defense duties in rear.

 

Top speed was found to be 528 km/h at SL, 628 km/h at 5500, top climb rate 22,8 m/sec - quite impressive.

 

 

[Charly_Owl]

Wow, thank you for that link! :thumbup:

 

Purchased/downloaded and had a quick look. Beautiful photos - so much detail!

 

I have it both in paper and electronic format as well. It is one of my most prized possessions. ;)

 

That is after Morgan and Shacklady's Spitfire History book, which I got for 40 bucks in a backwater library in Ontario. In perfect condition... :D

[Talisman_VR]

Very interesting to see the above RAF Spitfire test results. Particularly the time flown at full boost with no adverse effects:

 

 

"The total time flown at +25 lb/sq.in. during the tests was approximately 1 hour, 10 mins., whilst total time flown at boost higher than +18 lb/sq.in. was approximately 2 hours."

 

 

This in relation to 24th November 1943 test on a standard Spitfire IX with a Merlin 66 engine and a Rotol 4 bladed propeller.

[TAGERT]

Scroll back a couple of pages ;) - never mind, let me do it for ya.

Thanks, but I would prefer the un-edited orginals!

 

Don't take it personal! :music_whistling:

[SKR]

Scroll back a couple of pages ;) - never mind, let me do it for ya.

but in general it not the only tests http://www.e-reading.link/illustrations/151/151366-pic_48.jpg

Top speed Spitfire LF

SL 529 kmh

2950 m 598 kmh

6450 m 642 kmh

Time to climb at 5000 m 3.6 minute

Edited March 12, 2015 by SKR

[SKR]

UPD tests of Spitfire in the USSR are for 15 lb/sq in

[Kurfürst]

Lets see the originals and I think you are guessing about the boost, since it cannot match +15 lbs data.

[Friedrich-4B]

I am aware about this site. I need still other data on Spitfire Mk.VIII and Mk.IX if you have an opportunity that make scans of all data on these modifications of Spit.

By the way you have no information on tests of Spitfire Mk.VIII/IX in the USA?I can provide the Russian data (if it is necessary)

 

Thanks for your offer SKR, I would be interested in seeing the test reports. I will send a Private Message to you. :thumbup:

 

I have it both in paper and electronic format as well. It is one of my most prized possessions. ;)

 

That is after Morgan and Shacklady's Spitfire History book, which I got for 40 bucks in a backwater library in Ontario. In perfect condition... :D

 

While I don't yet have the hard copy of Spitfire IX & XVI Engineered, I do have Robert Bracken's Spitfire II - The Canadians, Monty Berger and Brian Street's Invasion Without Tears and Dilip Sarker's biography of Johnnie Johnson - all of the Canadian RAF units did a fantastic job and deserve all the credit they can get. :beer:

Edited March 12, 2015 by Friedrich-4/B
add beer

[SKR]

Lets see the originals and I think you are guessing about the boost, since it cannot match +15 lbs data.

in the document that you have posted on the Spitfire was 15 pounds as boost 1535 mm Hg -760 mm Hg (normal atmospheric pressure) = 775 mm Hg and orde get just 15 pounds

[SKR]

Thanks for your offer SKR, I would be interested in seeing the test reports. I will send a Private Message to you. :thumbup:

 

 

 

While I don't yet have the hard copy of Spitfire IX & XVI Engineered, I do have Robert Bracken's Spitfire II - The Canadians, Monty Berger and Brian Street's Invasion Without Tears and Dilip Sarker's biography of Johnnie Johnson - all of the Canadian RAF units did a fantastic job and deserve all the credit they can get. :beer:

I believe that the USSR used the FS not right or reduction gear is not correctly set up as a result of 15 pounds at the rate of land was higher than that of BF.274

[SKR]

generally still worth finding tests Spitfires in the US, I think a little clarify the situation.

[Crumpp]

believe that the USSR used the FS not right or reduction gear is not correctly set up as a result of 15 pounds at the rate of land was higher than that of BF.274

 

 

My question is under what atmospheric conditions was the data derived for the USSR Spitfires?

[Charly_Owl]

I do have Robert Bracken's Spitfire II - The Canadians

 

How good are Spitfire I and Spitfire II The Canadians? Strangely enough I never got to read them...

[SKR]

My question is under what atmospheric conditions was the data derived for the USSR Spitfires?

All real filmed testimony converted under standard atmospheric conditions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Atmosphere

[flare2000x]

Thanks for your offer SKR, I would be interested in seeing the test reports. I will send a Private Message to you.

 

 

 

While I don't yet have the hard copy of Spitfire IX & XVI Engineered, I do have Robert Bracken's Spitfire II - The Canadians, Monty Berger and Brian Street's Invasion Without Tears and Dilip Sarker's biography of Johnnie Johnson - all of the Canadian RAF units did a fantastic job and deserve all the credit they can get.

Sorry for OT, I just finished reading Invasions Without Tears, it's a great book! Is the Johnnie Johnson book good? I've read Wing Leader, his autobiography, which is quite good, but not that one.

[Crumpp]

Privet SKR,

 

ll real filmed testimony converted under standard atmospheric conditions

 

Ok, You are saying the data is converted to some standard atmosphere. Any idea what those "standard conditions" are in the report?

 

The AIAA publishes a list of "standard atmosphere's" IIRC, there are 37 standard models in common use in that reference atmosphere guide. For subsonic imcompressible flow, the important things do not change much.

 

That being said, it would be nice to see the VVS "standard atmosphere" model parameters.

 

For now, let's move on.

 

The data is within + or - 3% of the RAF Merlin 66 +18lbs data and the Merlin 66 was not using +15lbs as a published Manifold pressure limit....that only corresponds to the Merlin 63 engine 5 minute rating.

 

So that is why SKR, the +15lbs rating is difficult to digest. It was never a rating for the Merlin 66 engine issued by Rolls Royce. It is lower but not by much than the +18lbs so you are saying the VVS de-rated the engine.

 

It would be nice to see the original document!

 

The VVS curve for Merlin 66 Spitfire follows BS 543 closely and is at most only 1.5% behind which does gives good agreement with a Merlin 66 +18lbs aircraft.

 

That leads me to believe it is a Merlin 66 engine as it is labeled but the 15lbs boost limit is still not clear.

 

What would clear it up is the document stating the 15lb boost limit or a VVS Pilot Operating Instructions for the Spitfire Mk IX Merlin 66.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Crumpp