DCS: Spitfire Mk LF IXc Discussion

[BigJimMcBob]

A slightly longer look at both Shores & Thomas and the Fighter Command War Diaries shows that, from the invasion to the end of July, gyro-equipped Spit IXs accounted for at a minimum the majority of all RAF Spitfire claims, regardless of marque, and for nearly 40% of all the RAF single-engine fighter claims as a whole (37.7%, if you must know).

 

I say at a minimum, since all of this assumes that the two Wings at Ford didn't receive the gyro before the invasion. They were equipped with it by September at the very latest, based on gun-camera film held by the Imperial War Museum (the clip title specifies the gyro sight being used).

 

So anyway, if you're going to model a 1944 Spit IX to fight the Luftwaffe, it should have a gyro sight if it's going to conform to reality.

[mjmorrow]

The Spitfire Mark IX should be a really tough opponent for the P-51 Mustang in a 1948 Arab Israeli War scenario. Then again, the Spitfire IX will be on both sides of that war, so there in no balance worries. Getting the Spitfire IF Will cover a lot of match ups. Just in the Arab Israeli War it gives you at least one plane from both sides. It is almost like a two for one deal. :smilewink:

Edited September 2, 2014 by mjmorrow

[gavagai]

The Spitfire Mark IX should be a really tough opponent for the P-51 Mustang in a 1948 Arab Israeli War scenario.

 

Nah, the P-51 can use the same tactic it used against the 109, 190, and 262: wait for them to run out of fuel and then shoot them down as they try to RTB on fumes.;)

[Friedrich-4B]

Nah, the P-51 can use the same tactic it used against the 109, 190, and 262: wait for them to run out of fuel and then shoot them down as they try to RTB on fumes.;)

 

That or the Spitfire pilot can get out and push. :prop:

[westr]

Just seen the screen shot of the DCS mark IV, doesn't it look wonderful.:)

[MiloMorai]

Just seen the screen shot of the DCS mark IV, doesn't it look wonderful.:)

 

Mk IV? ;);)

 

Used a Griffon engine

[westr]

Apologies mk IX

[AceRevo]

Still no griffon engine in that spitfire..

[AceRevo]

VEAO is doing the Griffon powered Mk XIV. Release is planned for early 2015.

 

WOW! Ive seen nor heard anything about this. As much as I love the mark 9, I really like the griffons powered ones too! Thanks for the info!

 

Edit: Airdoc, did you delete your post? I suddenly cant see it enymore, that I quoted... :S

[airdoc]

WOW! Ive seen nor heard anything about this. As much as I love the mark 9, I really like the griffons powered ones too! Thanks for the info!

 

Lol, i deleted my previous post because i though you meant it the other way around :)

 

glad that it helped anyway.

 

Yes, VEAO will be releasing a whole bunch of aircraft starting with the P40F on December 2014, and moving on to more than a dozen warbirds in the future.

 

Check their part of the forum for some eyecandy, and especially the 1st page of their roadmap for planned modules :

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=127100

 

cheers

[AceRevo]

That is one nice list! Seems like we got a nice future ahead! :D

[Kurfürst]

Some various Some additional gun dispersion data, via Olivier Lefebrve / AAW. This might come in handy for modelling the Hispano guns on the Spitfire IX.

 

Unfortunately only nose mount dispersion data available for the gun, as mounted in the P-38 nose, but given that German results for the same guns in the fuselage and wings display roughly 2-2,5x higher dispersion for wing mounted installations, it would be easy to make an educated guess for the dispersion of the Hispano, and if we get an E variant, for the .50 M2s in the flexible Spitfire wing. The .303 Brownings had a quite large spread in wing installation, iirc around 20 mils for 100%.

 

Here are the results of a lenghty research into dispersion data, which is quite hard to come by...

The data is based on 100% diameter dispersion with 1 mil = 1/1000th of rad, the kind of mount is precised next to the weapon. 75% dispersion diameter is supposed to be half the 100% diameter which seems quite true for most weapons, this value is provided when quoted in the source (M2 data for instance).

 

We can clearly see the impact of the wing mounting compared to engine mounting, the later seems to have absorbed recoil and vibration much better... indeed dispersion is at least 2 times greater with wing mounted weapons.

Engine mount are the most efficient but nose mounting or cowling mounting does not provide the same amount of precision the mount being much more prone to vibration it seems.

 

Note that US data on the M2 is confusing since the reference data comes from a P-38 nose mounted M2, but the US manuals use the same dispersion data for wing mounted weapons. Either the P-38 mounts are really up to no good or the manuals make a wrong assumption when it comes to wing dispersion. I tend to believe the later, i think the wing mounted M2 would have had a dispersion of at least 12mils and probably more.

 

If you quote this data on other sites/bbs please precise the source being AAW. TIA

H means Height (or max dispersion diameter) as i previously used vertical and lateral dispersion values.

 

D means distance.

 

Units are metric.

 

German Weapons

-----------------------

MG-17 Cowling mounted (Bf 109F-2 / Bf 109F-1 actual tests)

H = 0.60 / 0.8 m

D = 100 m

R/D = 60/10000 80/10000

= 6 mils / 8 mils

 

MG-131 Cowling mounted (Fw 190A - theorical max)

H = 1m

D = 100m

H/D = 100/10000

= 10 mils

 

MG-151/15 Engine mounted (Bf 109F-2 actual test)

H = 0,35 m

D = 100 m

H/D = 35/10000

= 3.5 mils

 

MG-FF Engine mounted (Bf 109F-1 actual test)

H = 0,2 m

D = 100m

H/D = 20/10000

= 2 mils (very tight patern)

 

MG-FF Wing mounted (Bf 109E-3 actual test)

H = 0,35 m

D = 100m

H/D = 35/10000

= 3.5 mils

 

MG 151/20 Engine mounted (Bf 109G-6 - theorical max)

H = 0.3m

D = 100m

H/D = 30/10000

= 3 mils

 

MG 151/20 Wing mounted - inner (Fw 190A - theorical max)

H = 0.7m

D = 100m

H/D = 70/10000

= 7 mils

 

MG 151/20 Wing mounted - outer (Fw 190A - theorical max)

H = 0.8m

D = 100m

H/D = 80/10000

= 8 mils

 

MK 108 Engine mounted (Ta 152 - therorical max)

H = 0.35

D = 100m

H/D = 35/10000

= 3.5 mils

 

Allied Weapons

------------------

M2 Nose mounted P-38 (USAAF 1944 Gunnery manual)

H = 1.88 m

D = 229 m

H/D = 188/22900

= 8.2 mils (75% = 4.1 mils)

 

Hispano 20mm Nose mounted P-38 (USAAF 1944 Gunnery manual)

3 mils 75%

6 mils 100% assumed

Edited November 14, 2014 by Kurfürst

[Kurfürst]

Until specific information is available about the source, and the source is confirmed as being genuine, the "data" is irrelevant to the Spitfire IX, or any other Spitfire, for that matter

 

Luckily its up to the devs to decide what is relevant - and the more data, the better! :D

 

In any case, sadly not much is heard about the Spitfire development so far. Hopefully, there will be some updates in foreseeable time...

[Kurfürst]

Be assured that in my experience, development is only based on reliable information and data from archives and acknowledged contributors. That has been true for all the projects I have been involved with. Those most vocal, ever present, ever under a new handle, ever replying members who have all the time in the day to spout out their "contributions" never get the attention they desire. :)

[klem]

I got fed up reading at page 12, can YO-YO give a roundup of what he is designing (mark/wing/engine/armament)?

 

BUMP!

 

I actually read all 30 pages with its usual mixture of common sense, fact, OT and drivel and am still none the wiser.

 

YoYo??

What are we getting?

[flare2000x]

BUMP!

 

I actually read all 30 pages with its usual mixture of common sense, fact, OT and drivel and am still none the wiser.

 

YoYo??

What are we getting?

Judging from the sole picture it is a LF IXc (M66 Engine) with the round wingtips, old tail, Malcolm Hood and 4 brownings.

[Friedrich-4B]

Judging from the sole picture it is a LF IXc (M66 Engine) with the round wingtips, old tail, Malcolm Hood and 4 brownings.

 

Fortunately, that still allows plenty of scope for skins. The PRU Pink Spitfire F.R IXs of 16 Sqn are an option:

 

 

Unfortunately, this pink is far too dark:

 

 

While this photo renders it too light:

 

 

the PRU Pink should be about this shade (illustrative);

 

 

or this:

 

 

The next step would be an option for the L.F Mk IXE, with larger, pointed rudder, .50 cals and slightly humped upper engine cowling; that could also be used as the basis for the L.F XVIE.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Friedrich-4/B

[Random]

Is it wrong that I love the idea of Photo Recon spits in DCS?

[Joao611]

Once we get the Spitfire IX, we should also get its "Modification XXX" and at least 1 mission for it!

 

 

:D

[Random]

Oh yes... Beer Delivery mission would be a laugh... Very strict on altitude limits... us brits don't do ice cold beer!

[flare2000x]

Once we get the Spitfire IX, we should also get its "Modification XXX" and at least 1 mission for it!

 

 

:D

 

I thought the Mk. XXX was a Mark V? It's not?

 

flare

[klem]

Is it wrong that I love the idea of Photo Recon spits in DCS?

 

Not wrong - just "Random". :megalol:

 

...and which Mark of PRU?... Which Engine? ... What mission value?...

[Random]

PR.IX and PR.XIX obviously ;) As to mission value... If it could take screenshots via the cameras it would be a great tool for more organised multiplayer groups... getting actual recon photos as the first stage of a mission. Attacking the target identified in the photos, and then assessing damage with a final recon run!

[Friedrich-4B]

PR.IX and PR.XIX obviously ;) As to mission value... If it could take screenshots via the cameras it would be a great tool for more organised multiplayer groups... getting actual recon photos as the first stage of a mission. Attacking the target identified in the photos, and then assessing damage with a final recon run!

 

:thumbup: It would be great to have PR missions incorporated (even if it might take years)

 

Having PRU aircraft would add some completely new dimensions to flight sims; the only objective is to avoid aerial combat and get the photos back safely. You have no guns to defend yourself and can only rely on evading/outmanœuvering your enemy.

 

Then there's the option of engaging in low-altitude "dicing"; for instance, the pink F.R IXs of 16 Sqn were used on low-medium altitude dicing missions; they were engaged in the pre-Market Garden sorties, when tanks and other vehicles of two Waffen SS divisions were spotted lurking around Arnhem

 

Low altitude dicing involved avoiding enemy aircraft while flying and navigating at high speed at low altitude. Once a target is found the pilot would have to be able to take photos using the oblique camera, meaning he would have to be able to line up the target while flying past at relatively high speed, and know when to trigger the camera shutter. All the while, there's light flak to contend with.

 

Here's an excerpt from Shores and Thomas' 2 TAF Volume 2, detailing 2 TAF's options for single-seat tactical reconnaissance aircraft:

Edited November 17, 2014 by Friedrich-4/B

[adamb]

I just really want to get my hands on a Spitfire in the game!!!