Unrealistic Enemy SAM?

[ralfidude]

You get lucky a lot in DCS so you can shoot down whatever.

 

Like this little moment of joy I had:

http://www.twitch.tv/ralfidude/c/3194921

 

And as it has been said SAMs are not realistic at all here.

 

In BMS they make a good effort. I have had moments where they SAMs would play with us, one guy flips on his radar to spike us, then turns it off. After some time of flying in it's general location thinking I'm going to SEAD the bastard, another SAM close by turns his on and off. At this point I realize what is happening and I'm screaming at all my F-16 wingman to turn around, run and climb. Just as we do that, 4-5 SAM systems in a circle pattern all turn their radars on and start to fire at all of us at once.

 

2 casualities and I survive alone. Yep, it can be that kind of bastard of a game.

[karambiatos]

In BMS they make a good effort. I have had moments where they SAMs would play with us, one guy flips on his radar to spike us, then turns it off. After some time of flying in it's general location thinking I'm going to SEAD the bastard, another SAM close by turns his on and off. At this point I realize what is happening and I'm screaming at all my F-16 wingman to turn around, run and climb. Just as we do that, 4-5 SAM systems in a circle pattern all turn their radars on and start to fire at all of us at once.

 

2 casualities and I survive alone. Yep, it can be that kind of bastard of a game.

 

thats some pretty good AI, doing that with CA would be challenging.

[Lulac]

Regarding the MANPADS, I do think their capabilities in DCS are overestimated...

 

absolutely! couple times I watched with my own eyes MANPAD launched at the air target and you watched and think how missile will do the job but then pufff...start to fly in different direction of target...

 

and, regarding on usage of MANPADS, We () use them for self protection of one particular area for instance. The basic unit was squad divided in teams of two man and two missiles per team. Teams were despairs in area forming fire positions (in manual for using the MANPADS it says that best results/destruction of air target is to fire 10 yes TEN missiles on one target!)...

another problem was battle readiness of teams! you cant be 24/7 in state "ready to fire"...many nice chances were lost because the teams weren't ready to fire...I remember the formation of 3 F-14 in low pass, fly over our heads...what a beautiful sight that was...it would be a shame to take down one of them but c'e la guerre...or the flight of 4 F/A-18 US Navy...engaged by quad MANPAD and when you think we got one - Pufff...missiles missed!!!

. . . .

 

from that day I start to believe in AAA!

[GGTharos]

Missiles can fail if they have exceeded their shelf life, or have been stored in harsh conditions or mishandled in transport, and that's assuming you were shooting modern missiles and not old SA-7s that were barely able to guide in a tail-chase. The game doesn't simulate such things - all weapons are factory fresh.

[Lulac]

from visiting on one of MANPAD teams I could say that something what we called "human factor" is the big precondition to success! people just can't be still and wait...and no one wants to read manuals!!!

[NineLine]

Missiles can fail if they have exceeded their shelf life, or have been stored in harsh conditions or mishandled in transport, and that's assuming you were shooting modern missiles and not old SA-7s that were barely able to guide in a tail-chase. The game doesn't simulate such things - all weapons are factory fresh.

 

 

That's why I never buy my missiles from Walmart, who knows how long they have been sitting on the shelf :D

 

It would be nice to see some inconsistencies programmed into SAM missiles though, but its probably not high up on the too do list.

 

In BMS they make a good effort. I have had moments where they SAMs would play with us, one guy flips on his radar to spike us, then turns it off. After some time of flying in it's general location thinking I'm going to SEAD the bastard, another SAM close by turns his on and off. At this point I realize what is happening and I'm screaming at all my F-16 wingman to turn around, run and climb. Just as we do that, 4-5 SAM systems in a circle pattern all turn their radars on and start to fire at all of us at once.

 

I bet you could do something similar with scripting or even just simple triggers...

[GGTharos]

The game doesn't simulate that, either ... :)

 

Good to know though, thanks for the info! :)

[GGTharos]

It would be nice to see some inconsistencies programmed into SAM missiles though, but its probably not high up on the too do list.

 

And then you'd have people screaming 'bug, my missiles don't work!' :D

 

I bet you could do something similar with scripting or even just simple triggers...

 

Yes, but it would be better if this behavior was built-in.

[NineLine]

Yes, but it would be better if this behavior was built-in.

 

Of course... but if you cant wait, there are options if you are willing to explore :) Who knows when SAMs will get some love, it seems like Air to Ground is next up after Air to Air... but even that is only guessing...

 

In fact I am gonna play around with the example Ralfi posted and see what I can come up with...

[MBot]

The game doesn't simulate that, either ... :)

 

And that is obviously the big problem. I think it is strange that there is such an absurd emphasis on cockpit realism around DCS while there is a severe lack on battlefield realism. In the 10 years I have followed ED sims, the advances in "battlefield factors" (surprise, confusion, suppression; all shaping factors of air-ground tactics) have been marginal, while the man-hours spend on the aircraft were obviously immense. Personally I would have gladly traded some aircraft-operating-realism for aircraft-empolyed-in-combat-realism. But I guess you have to accept DCS for what it is :)

[NineLine]

And that is obviously the big problem. I think it is strange that there is such an absurd emphasis on cockpit realism around DCS while there is a severe lack on battlefield realism. In the 10 years I have followed ED sims, the advances in "battlefield factors" (surprise, confusion, suppression; all shaping factors of air-ground tactics) have been marginal, while the man-hours spend on the aircraft were obviously immense. Personally I would have gladly traded some aircraft-operating-realism for aircraft-empolyed-in-combat-realism. But I guess you have to accept DCS for what it is :)

 

 

I think someone wrote a suppression script, I havent tried it, but there are options if one chooses to try, I know thats not as good as having them implemented, specially things like suppression that should be hard coded anyways... but just saying :)

[MBot]

I think someone wrote a suppression script, I havent tried it, but there are options if one chooses to try, I know thats not as good as having them implemented, specially things like suppression that should be hard coded anyways... but just saying :)

 

Yeah, *someone* wrote one :D

[NineLine]

Yeah, *someone* wrote one :D

 

Was that you? Sorry :)

[Grimes]

I bet you could do something similar with scripting or even just simple triggers...

 

Its possible... just really complex. I've been working a script on and off for the better part of the year. Unfortunately the last few months have had little progress. Now that SEAD issues have stabilized, I should probably try to get something released.

[NineLine]

Its possible... just really complex. I've been working a script on and off for the better part of the year. Unfortunately the last few months have had little progress. Now that SEAD issues have stabilized, I should probably try to get something released.

 

That would be very cool as we really dont have true SEAD right now....

[ralfidude]

Awesome, let us know how that goes along.

 

Another SAM pattern is to have a general purpose radar that is on all the time scanning the skies with multiple SAM batteries stationed over an area. All of these SAMs have their radar off and are on stand by. They receive all incoming hostile aircraft information from the general purpose radar scanning the sky. The radar keeps track of these bandits and informs the SAM batteries of the hostile aircraft location, and when the aircraft are well within NEZ, the SAM batteries turn on their radars and whoop some ass.

 

The above is the most absolute evil though...

[GGTharos]

The above is the most absolute evil though...

 

[Frostie]

In one of our missions on the 51st server an OHP is activated with enemy proximity using a simple trigger, when it does it can be a very nasty surprise over what seems free open water. With a bit more time and willing much more complex triggers can be devised to make a very dangerous IADS.