How does the MWS detect Maverick and ARM launches?

[eFirehawk]

Hello everyone,

 

Title is self explanatory. I've been wondering how the MWS in the A-10C knows when my friends fire either Mavs or the SU-25Ts ARMs. As far as I know the MWS can only detect active radar illumination, and since Mavs and Anti-Radiation missiles have only passive seekerheads and not even their launch aircraft have anything radar-active related as far as I know, how does it pick up their launches? Is it accurate? :)

 

Thanks!

Edited November 15, 2013 by eFirehawk

[MTFDarkEagle]

The RWR screen also features a MWS (Missile Warning System). This system is what detects missile launches and displays it on the RWR screen.

[eFirehawk]

The RWR screen also features a MWS (Missile Warning System). This system is what detects missile launches and displays it on the RWR screen.

 

Exactly, I was talking about the MWS indeed, sorry That's exactly what I meant, I've edited my main post now, from RWR to MWS. How does it detect missile launches exactly? What I can think of is of course radar illumination and maybe optical tracking or something, but I'm not exactly sure. :book:

[sobek]

It is an array of cameras that detect UV light emissions with certain spectral characteristics that are indicative of a rocket motor firing.

[ralfidude]

It is an array of cameras that detect UV light emissions with certain spectral characteristics that are indicative of a rocket motor firing.

 

In other words, it's a camera strapped on next to the RWR sensors, and it looks for smoke plumes. So I've been told that it can be so goddamn sensitive that everything sets it off. Literally everything. EVen you popping flares, some grandma cooking on a stove on the ground, etc and so forth.

[NullSpace]

Along with the above, it's important to note that the MWS has absolutely no idea what it's yelling about. It sees something that looks like a missile plume, and then fires an alert. That's exactly why it will go off for friendly missiles, ground-to-ground weapons, etc.

[HugePanic]

and that is, I guess, one of the reasons the pilots tell the others over radio that they launch anything.

The MWS made me mad after I found out what it all is about...

[Panthro]

I wonder when we are going to model grandma's cooking fires in DCS ;)

Jokes aside, what sort of false alarms should we see. I've worked out that some Russian MBT set it off with some kind of projectile when they fire.

 

Remember folks "rifle" THEN launch not the other way around :joystick:

[sobek]

In other words, it's a camera strapped on next to the RWR sensors, and it looks for smoke plumes.

 

Not smoke plumes, UV light emissions. Smoke plumes would be much harder to track, you would need complicated image recognition. The spectral signature of a burning rocket motor stands out quite a bit from other events happening on a battle field, so it is easy to distinguish.

 

Btw. the EODAS of the F-35 is supposedly capable of determining whether a missile is a threat to the aircraft or not.

Edited November 16, 2013 by sobek

[Dudikoff]

and that is, I guess, one of the reasons the pilots tell the others over radio that they launch anything.

 

The MWS is a rather recent development so it's probably not the reason :)

 

Overall situational awareness might be, though (e.g. imagine everytime you notice some missile flying by from behind, you'd have to ask your flight for confirmation is it friendly or not, etc.).

[Eddie]

Btw. the EODAS of the F-35 is supposedly capable of determining whether a missile is a threat to the aircraft or not.

 

MAWS on Typhoon can already do that, and show real time range/position and time to impact, as well as some other "stuff". There are a few different types of MAWS, UV optical is a rather basic low cost type.

 

The MWS on the A-10C is a very basic system with some significant limitations, as is the case with all UV optical systems, although there are things that can be done to reduce false indications IRL even reflections from the sun 'can' cause false alerts.

[Mosley]

Is the mws in dcs a10 different than whats in the military a10? I thought I read somewhere it was.

 

I remember when I was at an air show looking in the cockpit the a10 had a digital radio stack that took up like a 1/3rd of the space. Wouldn't supprise me if there were other upgrades to different components as well that cant be included in dcs a-10. I thought one was the mws, or it could be the rwr I don't remember it was rather vague... like my post...

[Eddie]

Is the mws in dcs a10 different than whats in the military a10? I thought I read somewhere it was.

 

The MWS, and all other aspects of the defensive aids suite we have in DCS have little in common with their real life counterparts.

 

The real systems are far more capable and "intelligent".

[Flagrum]

Is the mws in dcs a10 different than whats in the military a10? I thought I read somewhere it was.

 

I remember when I was at an air show looking in the cockpit the a10 had a digital radio stack that took up like a 1/3rd of the space. Wouldn't supprise me if there were other upgrades to different components as well that cant be included in dcs a-10. I thought one was the mws, or it could be the rwr I don't remember it was rather vague... like my post...

The MWS that is simulated in DCS is the same as of the RL A-10C that it replicates: the AN/AAR-47. It was part of the upgrade A-10A to A-10C, IIRC. As the A-10C we have is one of (or the) first variant of the A-10C it is quite possible, that the current RL aircraft already got an upgrade for the MWS already - that I don't know.

 

Some pics of the sensors the MWS uses: http://warthognews.blogspot.de/2009/10/new-warning-system-has-been-identified.html

You can find them on our Hog as well.

[Lucky]

The MWS, and all other aspects of the defensive aids suite we have in DCS have little in common with their real life counterparts.

 

The real systems are far more capable and "intelligent".

 

And classified.